The way police can help protect against murders is to patrol the streets. The way police can help identify fraud on cyberspace is Clipper. If you demand protection from society against cyberspace fraud, you accept society's right to violate someone's privacy. You have to also accept their right to violate _yours_. Just as in brickspace (I'm getting sick of calling it the 'real world') you try to protect yourself, _first_, and when it is socially recognized as not possible or very difficult, the police comes in... Are you going to expect the police to protect you against rude language? No, you protect yourself by ignoring it. Are you going to expect the police to protect you against broken promises? No, it's your own failed judgement, or luck. Or you'd have a formal contract. Are you going to expect the police to protect you against terrorist bombs? I would; that's a full-time job that I'm paying them for. In cyberspace too, where you can protect yourself with available tools - encryption, authentication and the other protocols we discuss here, you should not expect police help. You should _refuse_ it. Alternatively, you should give them the power to help you; the power to listen in to 'criminals'; the power to identify conspiracies through communication route tracing. Sounds familiar? Continued... (so that those who look for interesting matter in the first para don't ignore this ;) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rishab Aiyer Ghosh They came for the Jews, and I was silent because I was not a Jew; rishab@dxm.ernet.in They came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not protest, because I did not Voice/Fax/Data +91 11 6853410 belong to a trade union; Voicemail +91 11 3760335 They came for the Catholics, and I said nothing because I was not a Catholic; H 34C Saket And then they came for me. New Delhi There was no one left to say anything... INDIA ----Father Niemoeller