being postmaster on the system dis.org (where the remailer that Detweiler used to do most of his dirty work exists) I have recived more then my share of complaints about reamailer. (not that I set up the first remail on a privately owned machine, thus risking a few grand in hardware so that I can personly garrentee that the sysad sendmail logs will not be released to anyone). I am still reciving complaints from the shitmail send out from him, now do you want to talk about noise?

[flame mode on]

Do you fight noise by being noisy yourself?? To me you won't be much better than Detweiler himself by adopting this aproach. You have read postmaster's statement on the Detweiler case, and in my opinion his views must be respected.

It is a little strange to observe a group fighting for privacy and anonymity in the electronic community start whining about harassments from anonymous users. We all know that cryptography, anonymity etc are two-edged swords, and we all have argued that the "good" properties more than offset the "bad" ones. Now we have tasted one of the "bad" properties of anonymity on the net -- perhaps a healthy lesson.

The Detweiler problem seems to be solving itself. I haven't seen any posts neither to this list or to any of "his" usenet groups lately and postmaster indicates that it is Detweiler's intention to stop the flooding of the net. It is only us other users, now including myself, who keep the memory of Detweiler alive. Let's give it a break.

[flame mode off]

-- Rolf

---------------------------------------------------------------------- Rolf Michelsen Phone: +47 73 59 87 33 SINTEF DELAB Email: rolf.michelsen@delab.sintef.no 7034 Trondheim Office: C339 Norway ----------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with Rolf -- it's the old saw about people turning into their own enemies. Done right, we become what we love. Done wrong, we become what we hate. It's been a real education to watch some folks on this list try to crack remailers, to attempt to get into Detweiler's personal life, to threaten him with violence, etc. "Anonymity is a precious asset of Netlife!" "Freedom of speech is a sacred right!" "I may disagree with what you say; but I'll defend to the death your right to say it!" Then, when someone comes along whose opinions clash violently with our own, instead of just 86ing them with the delete key, we flame back, write to the postmaster of his home address, etc. As a consolation, I'll offer arthurc's First Law of Technology: * A technology has truly arrived when the new problems it gives rise to approach in magnitude the problems it was designed to solve.* ( )) (( ))) ((()) ( ) ((()))) ()) ( ((( ) )))()) ) ))) ))) (()) (( (() ) (( ))) )) (() ))() ) () ))) (() ())) (() (() (( (())()) )() )(()) ))) (() ) )) ()())())( (()))) (())()() ())) () (()) ((())) (()) Hey, this isn't a flame! :<)

Dear Nick: Thanks for the reasoned, even-tempered, and well-researched reply. As a named tentacle in the SQUISH spectacular, and as a modestly frequent contributer to the anonymity versus responsibility threads, I believe I can qualify as one who has done his homework. Detweiler is not in my kill file -- nor are you. But as for your unsolicited 132K forward of sundry spams, I am depositing it where, in my considered judgement, it belongs. ______ \ \. |`\_____\ |` | | __-====-__ | | | (~< >~>_| | | {~~-====--~~: \ | | !~~------~~/----`+----/ \ \___ / >------\ \ < <_________________> On Fri, 21 Jan 1994, Nick Szabo wrote:

Arthur Chandler:

...

It's been a real education to watch some folks on this list try to crack remailers, to attempt to get into Detweiler's personal life, to threaten him with violence, etc.

So, this is only supposed to work one way? If someone uses remailers to dig into my personal life, accuse me of criminality, and threaten me with violence, I'm supposed to just meekly take it?!!!!!!!!

I have the feeling Arthur Chandler's another one of the "Detweiler's in my kill file" folks who needs a clue about what has been going on. I'll send him my Detweiler archive forthwith so he can do his homework.

Nick Szabo szabo@netcom.com