Ivy Bells, Smersh, and the Rosenbergs
At 9:16 AM 7/31/95, Bill Stewart wrote:
At 12:52 AM 7/31/95 -0700, rick hoselton wrote:
Different cases - the Walkers gave away information on how the Yankees were stealing Russian secrets, which the Russians patched up by encrypting.
Really? Do you have a reference for this? I am interested.
No refs, this is just memory of the news. There was an undersea cable north of Siberia somewhere that carried a lot of unencrypted military traffic, which US Submarines were eavesdropping on. I think Walker was the one who leaked it, and they started encrypting. Refs on the Walkers should be easy to find in the library; there were a couple of books.
There were at least 3 books, plus at least one t.v. miniseries, plus extensive media coverage. Until the Aldrich Ames case, this was about the most serious spying case in modern times. (It may or may not have been bigger than Ames, depending on the relative importance of "technical means" vs. "humint.") The undersea cable eavesdropping program was "Ivy Bells," and was revealed to the Sovs by Walker and his associates. I don't know if they also knew about via alternate sources. On the other issue, whether either or both of the Rosenbergs were spies, things have settled yet. Sudoplatov, in "Special Tasks," claims they were both spies. Others doubt it. (For you Bond fans, Sudoplatov headed up "Smersh." Russian for "Death to spies." Yes, it really existed, unlike, say "U.N.C.L.E.") On the issue of whether in the 1950s the U.S. government knew the Rosenbergs were spies, we have even less information. A trial was held and guilty verdict returned, but reasonable folks may disagree. My guess? Yes, they were probably spies. The Rosenbergs were certainly the Mumia Abu Jamals of their day. --Tim May .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@sensemedia.net | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-728-0152 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Corralitos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."
On Mon, 31 Jul 1995, Timothy C. May wrote:
On the other issue, whether either or both of the Rosenbergs were spies, things have settled yet. Sudoplatov, in "Special Tasks," claims they were both spies. Others doubt it.
(For you Bond fans, Sudoplatov headed up "Smersh." Russian for "Death to spies." Yes, it really existed, unlike, say "U.N.C.L.E.")
On the issue of whether in the 1950s the U.S. government knew the Rosenbergs were spies, we have even less information. A trial was held and guilty verdict returned, but reasonable folks may disagree. My guess? Yes, they were probably spies.
Hmm... the stuff that was from the "one-time pads" that were recently decrypted says it was fairly certain they were. So says Kahn. :) I'm not convinced that there was enough public information available for a reasonable conviction back in the 50's, but there seems to be now.
The Rosenbergs were certainly the Mumia Abu Jamals of their day.
The Mumia case (something friends of mine are more than peripherally acquainted with) seems to be very much in doubt. Of course, they'll kill him anyway, probably. But I suggest reading E.L. Doctrow's essay on the subject from the NYT of several weeks (months? possibly) back. Jon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jon Lasser <jlasser@rwd.goucher.edu> (410) 494-3253 Visit my home page at http://www.goucher.edu/~jlasser/ You have a friend at the NSA: Big Brother is watching. Finger for PGP key.
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