Forwarded message:

From: Matthew James Gering <mgering@ecosystems.net> Subject: RE: Two Jims, Werner and Matt redefine socialism for their own en ds Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:24:16 -0700

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multinational bank and local government. I can vote for my councillors. Some of them I my neighbours.

So why can't your neighbors run a bank?

The same reason most people can't. Funny thing is, it's the same reason a lot of bankers can't run banks.

Distribute what and created by whom? Need I point out the obvious fallacy that wealth is a static sum.

Interesting. I don't see that particular axiom in my notes....what I see is the assumption that markets and their growth are unlimited. Pesky things like ecological impacts, social impacts, waste processing, etc. are no big percentage (as in completely ignored).

Abstract wealth and divorce it from the creator and you eliminate the motive to create.

An interesting but obtuse means of stating that economics are a result of human action and not a fundamental force in nature.

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And then Matt Gering replied to Ken Brown:

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A monopolisitic supplier of some good has a measure of political power.

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Political power comes at the mean end of a gun, what political power do monopolies have and how?

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And I was almost knocked over by the innocence, ignorance and naievety of such a statement.

The question was not rhetorical. Do you care to answer?

Political power is actualy a much broader sword than Marx (and yourself apparently) would paint. It's invovled in such basic actions as saying thank you and holding a door open for somebody. The political aspect is a fundamental belief that what goes around comes around. If I, and enough other people walk around opening doors for each other, do this then when I can't open the door somebody likely will. It's a gamble in the basic nature of humans, to do the same basic things within the same social environment the same basic way. Things like economies of scale have fundamental bases in these sorts of psychological insights. Those comparable behaviours very seldom involve violence as a motive, let alone a method. People, all people, behave badly when violence is involved. Usualy violence is involved in creating a behaviour of compliance that runs contrary to some fundamental behaviour of the individual(s) or on the overt attempt to steal or kill (murder is incorrect because it implies a social structure that doesn't actualy exist at this fundamental level).

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What political power do monopolies have? The power to deny you things you need to live.

How? By denying the ability of others to supply them. By denying your right to create them. By (legitimately) denying your ability to steal them.

Monopolies have the power to decide *YOUR* tomorrow. It isn't theirs at the cost of a simple profit.

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- it is preserved by military and police authority.

And social institutions.

Exactly. So eliminate those guns.

Beeeep. We're so SORRY (not)!!!! That's absolutely the WRONG answer EVER.

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." -- Philip K. Dick

Fine, stop believing in money, no one is forcing you to. Did it work? Oh, you mean *everyone* has to stop believing in it? Sounds like mass delusion to me,

That is EXACTLY what I've been trying to say all along! Economics is a social institution that has fundamental roots in the base behaviours of the animals involved.

What is the root of money? http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/money.html

Hunger. ____________________________________________________________________ To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice. Confucius The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------