-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- "In an interview Tuesday, [David L.] Aaron [the Feds' Crypto Ambassador] disputed the industry's view that the U.S. efforts to control cryptographic technology are being outstripped by the pace of the technology. "When I talk to other governments," he said, "they still don't feel that the cat is out of the bag." What the fuck do *they* know? DCF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 iQCVAgUBMu+CdoVO4r4sgSPhAQHMqgQAhLoHArHx76zdXu8yM7WrThPi0pn8U5wG IQQItZFQAK84MnnbKDEDsW4SW5e9pM7JaFWbFqUg4VooAnKRd/2oITSijEW57jsR SQrhdqztR5fX82Wi9kBNsx92+McywzaeJBI6t+oTEYqqUlhQhzCoJiUpjMu9Q9FR 2gg8Mc01l4E= =MgUH -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
David Aaron seems to make lying out of his ass a hobby. His talk at the RSA conference was such a load of bullshit it wasn't even funny. "Other governments were upset with the 56-bit export allowance. They said it was going to undermine their national security." -- Start of PGP signed section.
"In an interview Tuesday, [David L.] Aaron [the Feds' Crypto Ambassador] disputed the industry's view that the U.S. efforts to control cryptographic technology are being outstripped by the pace of the technology.
"When I talk to other governments," he said, "they still don't feel that the cat is out of the bag."
What the fuck do *they* know?
DCF -- End of PGP signed section, PGP failed!
-- Sameer Parekh Voice: 510-986-8770 President FAX: 510-986-8777 C2Net http://www.c2.net/ sameer@c2.net
sameer <sameer@c2.net> writes:
David Aaron seems to make lying out of his ass a hobby.
Look who's talking - Sandy's boss! Please see http://www.fileita.it/webitalia/netscum/parekhs0.html for some important information regarding Sameer, privacy, and integrity. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
as I've said before, I really hate the "cat out of the bag" saying, as Aaron's recent comments indicate. ONLY A TYRANNICAL GOVERNMENT WOULD PUT THE CAT IN THE BAG IN THE FIRST PLACE maybe we can distill this into a new saying, instead of the favorite "cats out of bags". I've said repeatedly that pro-crypto advocates using the "cat out of the bag" analogy is actually damaging to the position that the constitution guarantees crypto freedom via free speech and privacy. it encourages the government side to do exactly as Aaron is doing-- arguing that the cat is not out of the bag, when *that's*not*the*point* how about, GOVERNMENT SHOULD STOP SUFFOCATING CRYPTO CAT!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, On Thu, 30 Jan 1997, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
as I've said before, I really hate the "cat out of the bag" saying, as Aaron's recent comments indicate.
Interestingly, the saying, "to let the cat out of the bag" is related to the saying, "to buy a pig in a poke." A poke is a sack or bag. In times past, street peddlers would sell a mark a young pig. The pig was supposedly put into a poke, but in fact, a bag with a cat in it was substituted. By the time the mark figured out his mistake by "letting the cat out of the bag," the peddler was long gone. The lesson the mark learned was "Don't buy a pig in a poke." The better metaphor for crypto is that the genie is out of the bottle. Alternatively, that the crypto bell cannot be unrung. S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
fascinating reading sandy, but
The better metaphor for crypto is that the genie is out of the bottle. Alternatively, that the crypto bell cannot be unrung.
these have the same conceptual limitations I was flaming. to use the analogy: 1. it is unconstitutional to put a crypto genie in a bottle in the first place. 2. it is unconstitutional to make laws against ringing crypto bells. again, when you use the above analogies, the government can argue with you and say, "no, we thing that crypto hasn't really spread as much as it could without the ITAR", and this is a pretty difficult point to argue. how can you argue that crypto has spread as much as it possibly can? relaxing regulations would surely cause it to spread more than it has. admittedly, I can't think of a nice substitute with a good "ring to it". <g> however, I do like the saying that crypto-news has been using about "our safe, our KEYS!!" or something similar. I propose that people emphasize this. using any of the other analogies just encourages orwellian thinking along the lines in the government: oh YEAH?! who SAYS the genie is out of the bottle?! what makes you think we can't put him BACK THERE?! so imho its all a diversion and a decoy. it's the wrong argument to get involved in-- has crypto spread to make it impossible to contain? and as the saying goes, "never get in an argument with a fool, people might not know the difference". do we believe in the constitution or not? perhaps it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy when we don't.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, On Thu, 30 Jan 1997, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
fascinating reading sandy, but
The better metaphor for crypto is that the genie is out of the bottle. Alternatively, that the crypto bell cannot be unrung.
these have the same conceptual limitations I was flaming. to use the analogy:
1. it is unconstitutional to put a crypto genie in a bottle in the first place. 2. it is unconstitutional to make laws against ringing crypto bells.
We do not disagree except neither of the metaphors I gave suggest anything about the "putting in the bag" part of the deal. In no way does either suggest a right, power or even ability of anyone to limit any freedom. They are mute on the subject. Their sole meaning is that one CAN'T undo what is already done. In the instant case, that means the wide-spread availability of strong crypto. S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
participants (5)
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dlv＠bwalk.dm.com -
Duncan Frissell -
sameer -
Sandy Sandfort -
Vladimir Z. Nuri