Lance Rose writes anti-cryptoanarchy in WIRED
I've missed recent traffic so forgive me if this has already come up. Lance Rose writes a particularly twisted piece in the Idees Fortes section of WIRED 3.02 (February). His basic premise is that tradritional forms of copyright law are sufficient to ensure that the Net poses only limited problems to mass content producers such as Time Warner. I agree with this, as most people feel uncomfortable about 'stealing' however impossible it is to detect. Lance Rose, though, goes on to insist that the reason for the copyright law's strength will be the power of the omnipresent Net Cops (sic). So that you don't consider him entirely ignorant, he acknowledges the increasing use of anon remailers. However, he adds (repeatedly), "Can't we all use anonymous remailers to keep the Net knee-deep in infringing copies? Nope. Net cops can swiftly clean each new infringement out of the major online markets as soon as it appears." How will they do this so efficiently? By "deploying software agents" net-wide to "search out anonymous infringements." He later admits the possibility of "friend-to-friend" markets, but rejects the possibility of such markets growing out of hand, as "few or none of the participants will know everyone else in the circle" allowing cops to join them undetected (as if the Information Liberation Front would mind giving the _cops_ pirated software). "A symbolic legal attack" every once in a while will scare would-be black-marketeers. Later, he does discuss the hidden costs of acquiring pirated versus genuine stuff - "the time and effort needed to track down pirate dealers [...] who are so deep underground even the cops can't find them." Sheesh. And here we are, post-BlackNet, discussing untraceable paid-for anon-remailers (which exist today on Sameer's c2.org blind server) and data havens. I haven't bothered to hunt for Lance's address, which is not given, but really I thought someone as prominent a SysLawyer as him would be clued in. Nor have I found the time to send WIRED a letter. OTOH maybe ignorance, for LEA-friendly legislators who read WIRED, is bliss? Let the sleeping dog lie, etc, just finish your data haven code ;-] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rishab Aiyer Ghosh "In between the breaths is rishab@dxm.ernet.in the space where we live" rishab@arbornet.org - Lawrence Durrell Voice/Fax/Data +91 11 6853410 Voicemail +91 11 3760335 H 34C Saket, New Delhi 110017, INDIA
rishab@dxm.ernet.in wrote:
Sheesh. And here we are, post-BlackNet, discussing untraceable paid-for anon-remailers (which exist today on Sameer's c2.org blind server) and data havens. I haven't bothered to hunt for Lance's address, which is not given, but really I thought someone as prominent a SysLawyer as him would be clued in. Nor have I found the time to send WIRED a letter.
First, I want to know how Rishab, in India, gets "Wired" so early (or why I, right next to Silicon Valley, get it so late). He's mentioned the February issue twice now, and all I have is the January "White Album." Second, I didn't know Lance Rose was a lawyer, or even a "SysLawyer" (?). When I met him a couple of years ago, he'd just gotten out of jail and was working for the satellite Usenet distribution company (whose name I don't recall, and who I've heard less of than I might've expected to, subjunctively speaking). In any case, there a zillion odd opinions on the Net of a Million Lies. Most of them will vanish without a trace. That's comforting. --Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. Cypherpunks list: majordomo@toad.com with body message of only: subscribe cypherpunks. FAQ available at ftp.netcom.com in pub/tc/tcmay
...
Album."
Second, I didn't know Lance Rose was a lawyer, or even a "SysLawyer" (?). When I met him a couple of years ago, he'd just gotten out of jail and was working for the satellite Usenet distribution company (whose name I don't recall, and who I've heard less of than I might've expected to, subjunctively speaking).
Bzzzt.... You're error correction is working overtime... That's Len Rose, formerly with Pagesat, currently with barrnet. His offense, BTW, was basically giving the source to ATT login.c to a college kid... Documented somewhat poorly in 'The Hacker Crackdown', Bruce Sterling.
In any case, there a zillion odd opinions on the Net of a Million Lies. Most of them will vanish without a trace. That's comforting.
--Tim May
Now, my name is one that really should cause collisions... sdw -- Stephen D. Williams 25Feb1965 VW,OH sdw@lig.net http://www.lig.net/sdw Senior Consultant 513-865-9599 FAX/LIG 513.496.5223 OH Page BA Aug94-Feb95 OO R&D AI:NN/ES crypto By Buggy: 2464 Rosina Dr., Miamisburg, OH 45342-6430 Firewalls/WWW servers ICBM: 39 38 34N 84 17 12W home, 37 58 41N 122 01 48W work Pres.: Concinnous Consulting,Inc.;SDW Systems;Local Internet Gateway Co.17Jan95
Stephen D. Williams wrote:
Bzzzt.... You're error correction is working overtime...
That's Len Rose, formerly with Pagesat, currently with barrnet. His offense, BTW, was basically giving the source to ATT login.c to a college kid... Documented somewhat poorly in 'The Hacker Crackdown', Bruce Sterling.
Enough already! This is the seventh or eighth such correction that's been sent to me, some of them also sent to the list. I understand that errors get picked up promptly by all you eagle-eyes, but enough already. Thanks, --Tim May
tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May) writes:
data havens. I haven't bothered to hunt for Lance's address, which is not given, but really I thought someone as prominent a SysLawyer as him would be clued in. Nor have I found the time to send WIRED a letter.
First, I want to know how Rishab, in India, gets "Wired" so early (or why I, right next to Silicon Valley, get it so late). He's mentioned
I used to get it three months late, as TNT was doing something really weird to WIRED. I screamed. So they send it express hot off the press, which has worked for two issues so far.
Second, I didn't know Lance Rose was a lawyer, or even a "SysLawyer" (?). When I met him a couple of years ago, he'd just gotten out of
No, I don't think he's a lawyer, but he wrote SysLaw which is widely hyped as _the_ law book for BBS sysops. It's actually not that good - the EFF recommends another one the name of which I've forgotten. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rishab Aiyer Ghosh "In between the breaths is rishab@dxm.ernet.in the space where we live" rishab@arbornet.org - Lawrence Durrell Voice/Fax/Data +91 11 6853410 Voicemail +91 11 3760335 H 34C Saket, New Delhi 110017, INDIA
Rishab Aiyer Ghosh writes:
Second, I didn't know Lance Rose was a lawyer, or even a "SysLawyer"
No, I don't think he's a lawyer, but he wrote SysLaw which is widely hyped as _the_ law book for BBS sysops. It's actually not that good - the EFF recommends another one the name of which I've forgotten.
I just picked up a copy of "Cyberspace and the Law" -- when I'm through with it, I'll post a review. It looks to be a nice, broad survey, but it looks suspiciously thin for a book on law :-) While I'm posting, have I missed any good rants from folks who've had a crack at the DigiCash beta test? I had a few criticisms of the end result, but I'd rather not introduce further redundancy. nathan
Tim wrote: | rishab@dxm.ernet.in wrote: | | > Sheesh. And here we are, post-BlackNet, discussing untraceable paid-for | > anon-remailers (which exist today on Sameer's c2.org blind server) and | > data havens. I haven't bothered to hunt for Lance's address, which is not | > given, but really I thought someone as prominent a SysLawyer as him would | > be clued in. Nor have I found the time to send WIRED a letter. | | First, I want to know how Rishab, in India, gets "Wired" so early (or | why I, right next to Silicon Valley, get it so late). He's mentioned | the February issue twice now, and all I have is the January "White | Album." He doesn't have to contend with the USPS? (My copy arrived today, quite beat up, and missing most of its white envelope. Sigh.) | Second, I didn't know Lance Rose was a lawyer, or even a "SysLawyer" | (?). When I met him a couple of years ago, he'd just gotten out of You're thinking of Len Rose, not Lance Rose. (Assuming this is the L. Rose who features in The Hacker Crackdown.) Regarding Rishab's points about the article, I think its a useful fantasy. Let Lance think that net.cops will win, until the reality proves otherwise. At least he doesn't call for banning remailers. Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume
Timothy C. May wrote:
Second, I didn't know Lance Rose was a lawyer, or even a "SysLawyer" (?). When I met him a couple of years ago, he'd just gotten out of jail and was working for the satellite Usenet distribution company (whose name I don't recall, and who I've heard less of than I might've expected to, subjunctively speaking).
Josh Geller reminded me that it may've been Len Rose I was thinking of. Len, Lance, I don't know. --Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. Cypherpunks list: majordomo@toad.com with body message of only: subscribe cypherpunks. FAQ available at ftp.netcom.com in pub/tc/tcmay
Lance Rose is a good guy... IMHO.. 1) I use his legal services 2) I haven't read the article but it seems reasonable esp. if we don't have NON-Escrowed encyptions... e.g., if clipper wins I think Lance is probally correct... 3) he can be reached at 72230.2044@compuserve.com
Timothy C. May says:
Second, I didn't know Lance Rose was a lawyer, or even a "SysLawyer" (?). When I met him a couple of years ago, he'd just gotten out of jail and was working for the satellite Usenet distribution company (whose name I don't recall, and who I've heard less of than I might've expected to, subjunctively speaking).
Don't confuse Len Rose and Lance Rose. One is indeed a lawyer -- in fact, he's my lawyer. Perry Who notes that he's not the only person shooting from the hip these days.
participants (7)
-
Adam Shostack -
habs＠cmyk.warwick.com -
Nathan Loofbourrow -
Perry E. Metzger -
rishab＠dxm.ernet.in -
sdw＠lig.net -
tcmay＠netcom.com