"Big Brother or the Boss?" Are you SURE that's a dichotomy? Big Biz and Big Gov are almost inextricably intertwined these days. If dot-com pushes for snoopware, it is called CMR. If dot-gov pushes for it, it is called GAK. The real question is, if the interests of Biz and Gov coincide, and "real cooperation" is achieved, does it really matter where the idea originated? Either way you still have snoopware. Cpl Kaos
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199710240110.UAA09551@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com>, on 10/23/97 at 06:05 AM, nobody@neva.org (Neva Remailer) said:
"Big Brother or the Boss?"
Are you SURE that's a dichotomy?
Big Biz and Big Gov are almost inextricably intertwined these days. If dot-com pushes for snoopware, it is called CMR. If dot-gov pushes for it, it is called GAK. The real question is, if the interests of Biz and Gov coincide, and "real cooperation" is achieved, does it really matter where the idea originated? Either way you still have snoopware.
Well their are some basics that seem to get overlooked: Corporate Access to Plain Text (CAPT) - ------------------------------ - -- You work for the company - -- Any documents you create on company time are owned by the company -- The company uses PGP 5.5 to ensure they can decrypt *their* documents -- You know which documents they have access to - -- CAPT is flexable and can be adjusted to fit the security needs of the company. Government Access to Keys (GAK) - ------------------------------- - -- The governemnt works for you (at least in theory) - -- Any document you create are your own. - -- The govenrment want your keys so they can read *your* documents -- The government wants access to ALL your documents - -- There is no fleaxbility in GAK they want it all There is a clear distinction here between one haveing the ability to decrypt their own documents and a non-owner decrypting someone elses documents. This is the distinction between corporate access to plain text and GAK. The company *owns* the documents. They have a right to read them any time they want. If you don't want your *private* corrospondance to be read by others in the company then don't write them and transmit them at work. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNFCTn49Co1n+aLhhAQFcBAP9EY+myW2V+/OtXvr8mxbFuoQtIY2LIBbV gaSSUzkKdSX79t+kcXnyyyADqoHwA1FPrcfA+92l+1IgXq243tT+lwDY3G3cCU/S X6RBU0UbO9MUvc29LYcncr/nD30AoeN34qWMd3Pu6cwtgd3s7xZu0rdEQSww8nll SNAKogoJS9c= =e42J -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
* William H. Geiger III wrote:
documents. This is the distinction between corporate access to plain text and GAK. The company *owns* the documents. They have a right to read them any time they want. If you don't want your *private* corrospondance to be
The company *owns* all telephon calls mad from an to there office. So they have a right to wiretrap and record all phone calls you does from the company. If you don't want your *private* corrospondance be wiretraped and recorded, prevent every phone call in private issues from the company. Forbit your insurance agency to call you in the company, deny the school attended by your children to phone you at work, if your childen is ill, ... Somebody should thing about storing and communication. Look in the current draft. There is a solution.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <slrn65170k.16c.lutz@taranis.iks-jena.de>, on 10/24/97 at 01:01 PM, lutz@taranis.iks-jena.de (Lutz Donnerhacke) said:
* William H. Geiger III wrote:
documents. This is the distinction between corporate access to plain text and GAK. The company *owns* the documents. They have a right to read them any time they want. If you don't want your *private* corrospondance to be
The company *owns* all telephon calls mad from an to there office. So they have a right to wiretrap and record all phone calls you does from the company. If you don't want your *private* corrospondance be wiretraped and recorded, prevent every phone call in private issues from the company. Forbit your insurance agency to call you in the company, deny the school attended by your children to phone you at work, if your childen is ill, ...
Lutz, I am not quite sure what your point is here. A company has every right to listen in on any phone conversation you make on their phones. There is no "expectation of privacy". Many companies have strict guidlines on how you can use their phones, just try spending alot of time on a 900 number. As far as emergancy calls, I know of no company that disalows them but don't expect them to be private as they are not.
Somebody should thing about storing and communication. Look in the current draft. There is a solution.
This is not and issue of storage & communication this is an issue of property rights. The owner of the property is the one with the rights. :) - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNFCg9Y9Co1n+aLhhAQHrOwP9GGJC3ULu6T2XCdcj09ynbhWBEMGIQsa2 Cnfj6kMW9bZmOJ78qyqC/CzomiPOUjMIpbBMPEuRHrAjhArr51lItbJwGMwqSgca 4PVid/L/BviFywVGjRA0auFPE1VsMVByDUow47NerV+yOy4rNp6Id7tEALY98J5j L+hAmSnJGuk= =cWDL -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
* William H. Geiger III wrote:
I am not quite sure what your point is here. A company has every right to listen in on any phone conversation you make on their phones. There is no "expectation of privacy". Many companies have strict guidlines on how you
May be in your (poor) country. There is a world outside US.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <slrn6518rn.17j.lutz@taranis.iks-jena.de>, on 10/24/97 at 01:32 PM, lutz@taranis.iks-jena.de (Lutz Donnerhacke) said:
* William H. Geiger III wrote:
I am not quite sure what your point is here. A company has every right to listen in on any phone conversation you make on their phones. There is no "expectation of privacy". Many companies have strict guidlines on how you
May be in your (poor) country. There is a world outside US.
Lets not be throwing nationalistic stones here as your country has plenty of dirty laundry too. Here we have what is know as "property rights". The owner of property is the one who determines how it will be used. It is really quite simple and quite basic. Now I know that some of our socialist friends here and abroad think that through the power of the STATE they have a right to tell others how to live there lives this bankrupt philosophy has been rejected by most on this list. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNFCuAI9Co1n+aLhhAQHjAwQAhVL0Xbp+lNqoxtmbmP7L3dApUgyaqySv UgK37t/sxwa0L5JthJLASxBoDtuJWrvN/sCaEp1Nk32YXzyQgt+LVwQ3incIZ5f/ YIQbnHM5/dRdUfs+BmTdyStUW9yRxb49l0yFfcNPlR70qmn2jYBPkkZqspqBtKNl clN98oOoVUU= =pW5+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (3)
-
lutz＠taranis.iks-jena.de -
nobody＠neva.org -
William H. Geiger III