One should also note that the surplus beyond subsistence was much smaller at that time. A more useful figure might be the percent tax on surplus. If the serf was taxed at 10%, but only had a 5% surplus above survival needs, then he was in a difficult position. Unfortunately I see no chance of an agreement on how to define surplus. -Lance At 7:20 AM 5/6/96, jamesd@echeque.com wrote:

At 11:16 PM 5/5/96 -0700, Sandy Sandfort wrote:

...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

C'punks,

On Sun, 5 May 1996, Alan Horowitz wrote:

...

didn't the feudal vassels only pay 33% ?

Actually, no. When I used to edit a magazine, I commissioned an article about how much "tax" slaves, serfs, etc. paid. That is, how much of what they produced, did they get to keep; how much went to their masters. The surprising, cross-cultural answer my researcher/writer found was that they got to keep everthing they produced except 5-10%. That's a lot better, percentage-wise, than for modern "tax slaves."

In the early feudal period, ordinary knights did not live well. They were only moderately better off than peasants, and yet to support one knight, you needed a startlingly large number of peasants, a fact that kings were continually unhappy about and continually trying to fix.

While it is difficult to assess the tax rate, because taxes were in kind, it was clearly very low by modern standards. --------------------------------------------------------------------- | We have the right to defend ourselves | http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ and our property, because of the kind | of animals that we are. True law | James A. Donald derives from this right, not from the | arbitrary power of the state. | jamesd@echeque.com

---------------------------------------------------------- Lance Cottrell loki@obscura.com PGP 2.6 key available by finger or server. Mixmaster, the next generation remailer, is now available! http://www.obscura.com/~loki/Welcome.html or FTP to obscura.com "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra. Suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night the ice weasels come." --Nietzsche ----------------------------------------------------------