Hugh Daniel writes:

This is a protocol issue on two levels, the first is that the idea of accounting for packets/bandwidth/capacity (in some unknown manner) was left out of TCP/IP in the first place. The second is that it is going to be a very large amount of work to replace the current plant of TCP/IP hardware and software as none of these protocols are negotiated, just presumed to be the only way to do things.

If we build systems like these, then they will be 'brittle' and might inspire a few folks but not be usable by most, and some other (large) organization will build what it wants on top of our dreams rubble. There is little chance that I will ever use a monetary system that is so brittle that it fails if one link is down or one cypher unuseable due to it's being cracked by some unscrupulous agency.

Indeed. "Brittleness" is what's making the creakiness of the Net all the more apparent and critical every day. (Some things it does very well, and I'm amazed that it works as well as it does...a lot of clever people out there making patches.) Software has been compared to building a Boeing 747, except that flipping one little switch accidentally can make the wing fall off. We see islands of relative stability (word processors, apps, etc.) separated by flaky, error-prone (human, mostly) networks, with little interoperability. We mainly do "encryption" and "remailing" with our wonderful crypto tools--and we *don't* do much of the other neat stuff that is possible--for a simple reason: the only thing all of our myriad mail systems, newsreaders, various platforms, and communication systems can reliably communicate to each other is the _simple text message_! Although much more complicated objects are in principle intercommunicable (and Mosaic can do images, etc., so things are changing), the basic object of communication is the text block. It can be encrypted/decrypted, signed, and remailed, with people at the receiving end knowing how to handle it....that's why PGP and remailers work. The other protocols rely more on complicated objects, signals sent back and forth, and are much less interoperable and semantically more ambiguous.

This important subject of protocols is the topic of the next San Francisco Bay Area Cypherpunks meeting.

I agree. If the meeting is still on the 14th, the normal "second Saturday," I'll be there. If it's been moved to the 21st, as was being talked about, I'll be down in Los Angeles (where I'd still like to meet with any LA-area Cypherpunks who wish to meet). --Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."