allow me to state the obvious....
i am your average joe who uses the computer for work and e-mail and the occasional jaunt into the internet. going along reading this whole crypto-anarchy thing makes me want to cry. the whole point of cryptography is getting info from my eyes to yours. period. you can say that "illegal" information passes along the internet, but hello people - illegalities have been going on since long before the invention of the computer (or even the notion of cryptography - if i may stop to point out the obvious). the only reason _i_ use encrypted stuff is because i don't want my nosy sysadmin reading my mail. its that simple. think about it. how many times is your e-mail handed off? when sent it naturally follows the most convenient path to its destination, and even anonymous re-mailers (can) keep a hard copy of the messages that cross their connections with the original address included. you can go off into spoofing address and so on, but your average joe may (or may not) have the time or knowledge (much less the motivation) to do that. keep that in mind before you go saying that crypto is a good/bad thing. ---------------------- SUCRUM22@cv62.navy.mil ----------------------- a calculated risk based on the possible consequence of an action is better than a haphazard one based on poor judgment or ignorance --------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't confuse my views with those of the DoD or the United States Navy
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Sat, 9 Nov 1996 SUCRUM22_at_INDY-ADP@smtp-gw.cv62.navy.mil wrote:
i am your average joe who uses the computer for work and e-mail and the occasional jaunt into the internet. going along reading this whole crypto-anarchy thing makes me want to cry. the whole point of cryptography is getting info from my eyes to yours. period. you can say that "illegal" information passes along the internet, but hello people - illegalities have been going on since long before the invention of the computer (or even the notion of cryptography - if i may stop to point out the obvious). the only reason _i_ use encrypted stuff is because i don't want my nosy sysadmin reading my mail. its that simple. think about it. how many times is your
Plain cryptography isn't the main point. The protocols (such as anonymous digital cash, message pools, DC-nets, etc.) allow things to exist that are not possible without cryptography. These protocols make laws (especially victimless laws) much more difficult to enforce.
e-mail handed off? when sent it naturally follows the most convenient path to its destination, and even anonymous re-mailers (can) keep a hard copy of the messages that cross their connections with the original address included. you can go off into spoofing address and so on, but your average joe may (or may not) have the time or knowledge (much less the motivation) to do that. keep that in mind before you go saying that crypto is a good/bad thing.
In order for anonymous remailers to be completely anonymous, only one remailer in the chain has to be trustworthy. If a message is chained through N remailers and N-1 of those remailers are run by spooks, the anonymity of the message depends on the remaining remailer. Mark - -- finger -l for PGP key PGP encrypted mail prefered. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBMoTlLyzIPc7jvyFpAQEXGQf/VN8uNK7+uUWdNqcip2dHkPVFLjZlItBf dcilb36/zBJikX1XIOHbk15X/s4N/bM1WfAAYqPikI7jfcVkbxw0j0gTwVTYY1Wu AbbdAh1o47CYe55eqEhcirfQQEMMHaZ/7DXKj+mdDeBWACZqHbOmx25spChH0fi+ 3i3AhF23kBNxb4H/MNLTA9Fb6mzGsGsXmzDEJHnVPxQQG8uUQcBd6qVkBdLu05++ YYV60gr2vXb5LCLgIbhzT3Q/pFC2k2wkh9Wn+V+FgU1SwJleMWNOcY1nuU4ylND4 EncDq44AlWpt54fzu96saOz1DZgczyTaLnM2ZktywsH43WQ00eVw8A== =7FDt -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
At 5:57 PM -0500 11/9/96, SUCRUM22_at_INDY-ADP@smtp-gw.cv62.navy.mil wrote:
i am your average joe who uses the computer for work and e-mail and the occasional jaunt into the internet. going along reading this whole crypto-anarchy thing makes me want to cry. the whole point of cryptography ...
Well, then don't read what we have to say. Unsubscribe from the list or use filters. That you are happy just to use your computer for work and e-mail and occasional jaunts into the Internet and that discussions of other topics bother you should be a clear indication you're probably on the wrong list. Having a "navy.mil" domain probably is another reason, unless you are only hear to monitor our discussions of using cryptography to undermine the state, to liberate military secrets with BlackNet and the Information Liberation Front, and to punish the millions of those in the military-industrial complex who have so richly earned their eventual punishments. Smash the State. --Tim May "The government announcement is disastrous," said Jim Bidzos,.."We warned IBM that the National Security Agency would try to twist their technology." [NYT, 1996-10-02] We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Timothy C. May wrote:
At 5:57 PM -0500 11/9/96, SUCRUM22_at_INDY-ADP@smtp-gw.cv62.navy.mil wrote:
i am your average joe who uses the computer for work and e-mail and the occasional jaunt into the internet. going along reading this whole crypto-anarchy thing makes me want to cry. the whole point of cryptography ...
Well, then don't read what we have to say. Unsubscribe from the list or use filters. That you are happy just to use your computer for work and e-mail and occasional jaunts into the Internet and that discussions of other topics bother you should be a clear indication you're probably on the wrong list.
Having a "navy.mil" domain probably is another reason, unless you are only hear to monitor our discussions of using cryptography to undermine the state, to liberate military secrets with BlackNet and the Information Liberation Front, and to punish the millions of those in the military-industrial complex who have so richly earned their eventual punishments.
Smash the State.
--Tim May
"The government announcement is disastrous," said Jim Bidzos,.."We warned IBM that the National Security Agency would try to twist their technology." [NYT, 1996-10-02] We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Please tell me how to unsubscribe from this list. I have tried several times to no avail. Thanks, Bill
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- To remove oneself from the CypherPunks mailing list, one MUST follow these instructions TO THE LETTER. Results from these instructions could take up to two weeks to take effect. 1) Send a mail message to majordomo@toad.com. To: majordomo@toad.com From: you@your.domain Subject: unsubscribe cypherpunks you@your.domain unsubscribe cypherpunks you@your.domain <EOT> 2) Obtain 1 (one) bottle of tequila (Cuervo Gold, 1.5 liter) 3) Contact Ted Garrett <teddygee@visi.net> for a snail-mail address to send the bottle of tequila to. 4) Send the bottle of tequila to the address obtained in step 3. 5) Sit back and watch your mail volume decrease. In the event that these instructions fail to get you removed from the CypherPunks mailing list, follow these steps : 1) Send mail to admin@toad.com To: admin@toad.com From: you@your.domain Subject: Please remove me from CypherPunks... Dear Sir: I have been attempting to remove myself from the CypherPunks Mailing list for the past 2 (two) weeks, without any success. Please find it in your heart to make the administrative corrections necessary for me to no longer receive a copy of mail sent to cypherpunks@toad.com. Thank you. Your Name Here <EOT> 2) Obtain 1 (one) bottle of tequila (Cuervo Gold, 1.5 liter) 3) Send the object obtained in step 2 to the address previously obtained from Ted Garrett <teddygee@visi.net> 4) Sit back and watch your mail volume decrease. - --- "Obviously, the US Constitution isn't perfect, but it's a lot better than what we have now." - Unknown PGP key id - 0xDEACDFD1 - Full key available from pgp-public-keys@pgp.mit.edu -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: cp850 iQEVAwUBMoX6BM1+l8EKBK5FAQGb4gf/ZWQBk5SaMIqxcnb9mHKqlfWphHoaFwFv zb8x1BnD7yAozO6gw4nJAL+jW1XlF+Bzk1oSBBLLbJqjceDfAG2iiaDJVYIdv4zr GGHSAlwZq5e3RvoUPdSgvLarrT0w7R0/HI8Q3PbmwhbUFMoy5ajaIqjO1s5Q7M9G rYrusBBf9udQS0Ti4ZD9OmHPzGD69+I9jjVSj2clviGqKbhnxKWvRFrq1toZEFLK iy4Wfv6VC5m2gb9Ilu3GX/mGs6sUXuHMte58OwFDCBzdV3DjpEGCo2s8A9Veg856 6OWVwoW+NTne32JebCiLXrfe754+XZIXD3OmN9OkdxfQGHXJmY450Q== =ZmgO -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (5)
-
Mark M. -
SUCRUM22_at_INDY-ADP＠smtp-gw.cv62.navy.mil -
Ted Garrett -
Timothy C. May -
William F. Towey