Re: Artikel about XS4ALL in New York
On Fri, 2 May 1997, tank wrote:
"A few years ago, we would have been portrayed as a band of dangerous anarchists, bent on disrupting society," Rodriquez told the Dutch daily Trouw. "But now they have come to see that we are nice and quiet people really."
The only "nice people" are dangerous anarchists bent on destroying governments and buggering poloticians to death. (last part a personal preference of course, the author is totally straight but would nonetheless be distinctly amused to see any government official butt-raped to death)
The company was instrumental in the creation of the Amsterdam Digital The hotline is run by Internet users and providers. Unlike Britain's Internet Watch Foundation, the Dutch hotline doesn't censor any information nor does it ask the provider to do so. Hotline operators contact the author of the information and ask him to remove the offending content. "If the author does not comply, we report him to the police, and he'll be prosecuted," said Rodriquez, who also is chairman of the Dutch Providers Association.
How very benevolent. Its nice to know that instead of censoring your pages they send in the jackbooted thugs to do it for them, then throw you in a nice 6x9 cell for the henious crime of displaying some .gifs or similar.
"The Internet Watch Foundation forces the provider to remove the illegal content," he added. "This is a fundamentally different approach to responsibilities on the Internet. We think the author of the information is responsible for his own actions, not the provider."
And if he chooses not to remove the content you happen to find offensive? If you truly believed in the rights of the author and publisher of the information you would think about it before sending in your own particular brand of thugs to "crush the mutiny".
Yet when violation of the law is flagrant, XS4ALL doesn't hesitate to comply, as it did a few weeks ago when it shut down a customer's home page called Neuroroom, which sold marijuana and other soft drugs in Holland and abroad.
Sometimes one really wonders why we bother to set up mirrors to allow freedom of information to users, when the owners of these servers, supposedly in favour of free speech, do not even have the strength of character or conviction to decide for themselves what they will allow on their servers rather than bending over for the long cock of the law...
The company's commitment to support free expression and democratization of the Internet doesn't stop here.
As far as I can see it hasn`t even started yet.
Last fall when the Serbian government censored radio station B-92, XS4ALL helped design an Internet campaign and started to carry news broadcasts (in RealAudio format) that kept the rare opposition voice alive and the international public informed through independent accounts of the events occurring during the mass demonstrations in Belgrade.
I presume B-92 fell into line and matched the "requirements under law for obtaining a free-speech permit" before XS4ALL allowed this/
"Basically any project we like gets free resources from XS4ALL," Rodriquez commented.
And anyone who guarantees to publicly lick the boots of the benevolent owners in thanks for their support gets as much free space as they like? Of course I believe in the right to free expression of anyone and if these thugs choose not to allow material they don`t like on their servers they have every right to remove it. I just don`t see that setting up mirrors to defeat blocks on sites that refuse to carry certain content is of any value in the fight for free speech. Sure, create a mirror of Radikal, but giving any credit or attribution to XS4ALL seems to be a poor choice. Paul "Still messing with mail apps so totally .sig-less" Bradley
[cc'd to freedom-knights, who don't appreciate censorship of mj web pages] Paul Bradley <paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk> writes:
anarchists, bent on disrupting society," Rodriquez told the Dutch daily Trouw. "But now they have come to see that we are nice and quiet people really."
The only "nice people" are dangerous anarchists bent on destroying governments and buggering poloticians to death. (last part a personal preference of course, the author is totally straight but would nonetheless be distinctly amused to see any government official butt-raped to death)
I, personally, would have to use a dildo. Even if I were queer, I wouldn't get it up for a politician or a Cabal supporter. Yes, let's fuck Chris Lewis to death with a 27" dildo!!!1!!1!
The company was instrumental in the creation of the Amsterdam Digital The hotline is run by Internet users and providers. Unlike Britain's Internet Watch Foundation, the Dutch hotline doesn't censor any information nor does it ask the provider to do so. Hotline operators contact the author of the information and ask him to remove the offending content. "If the author does not comply, we report him to the police, and he'll be prosecuted," said Rodriquez, who also is chairman of the Dutch Providers Association.
Both asking the author to remove contents, and contacting the police are dishonorable acts. Even if the US, honorable providers tell the complainers: if it's something illegal, call the cops and leave us out of it.
"The Internet Watch Foundation forces the provider to remove the illegal content," he added. "This is a fundamentally different approach to responsibilities on the Internet. We think the author of the information is responsible for his own actions, not the provider."
I hope the IRA blows up these Internet Watch motherfuckers. Is this Blair guy any saner than the tory bastards?
And if he chooses not to remove the content you happen to find offensive? If you truly believed in the rights of the author and publisher of the information you would think about it before sending in your own particular brand of thugs to "crush the mutiny".
Perhaps we should further expose XS4ALL's hypocricy by renting from the web space and putting up some pages they won't like.
Yet when violation of the law is flagrant, XS4ALL doesn't hesitate to comply, as it did a few weeks ago when it shut down a customer's home page called Neuroroom, which sold marijuana and other soft drugs in Holland and abroad.
Sometimes one really wonders why we bother to set up mirrors to allow freedom of information to users, when the owners of these servers, supposedly in favour of free speech, do not even have the strength of character or conviction to decide for themselves what they will allow on their servers rather than bending over for the long cock of the law...
The ISP is not a court to decide that a web page offering MJ for sale is "illegal".
The company's commitment to support free expression and democratization of the Internet doesn't stop here.
As far as I can see it hasn`t even started yet.
Last fall when the Serbian government censored radio station B-92, XS4ALL helped design an Internet campaign and started to carry news broadcasts (in RealAudio format) that kept the rare opposition voice alive and the international public informed through independent accounts of the events occurring during the mass demonstrations in Belgrade.
I presume B-92 fell into line and matched the "requirements under law for obtaining a free-speech permit" before XS4ALL allowed this/
It's because Germans will gladly do anything to fuck over the Serbs. I bet XS4All wouldn't host a web page for Karajic.
"Basically any project we like gets free resources from XS4ALL," Rodriquez commented.
And anyone who guarantees to publicly lick the boots of the benevolent owners in thanks for their support gets as much free space as they like?
Of course I believe in the right to free expression of anyone and if these thugs choose not to allow material they don`t like on their servers they have every right to remove it. I just don`t see that setting up mirrors to defeat blocks on sites that refuse to carry certain content is of any value in the fight for free speech. Sure, create a mirror of Radikal, but giving any credit or attribution to XS4ALL seems to be a poor choice.
My understanding is that Radikal is a harmless, toothless liberal rag that the Germans had no grounds for censoring in the first place. Mirroring it is no big deal. How about mirroring the MJ page that the bastards at XS4ALL censored? Actually, I don't think mirroring is a good technology either. The "eternal server" posted a few days ago seems VERY VERY promising, I'm very exited about this technology - many many thanks. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
The only "nice people" are dangerous anarchists bent on destroying governments and buggering poloticians to death. (last part a personal preference of course, the author is totally straight but would nonetheless be distinctly amused to see any government official butt-raped to death)
I, personally, would have to use a dildo. Even if I were queer, I wouldn't get it up for a politician or a Cabal supporter.
This I can fully understand.
"The Internet Watch Foundation forces the provider to remove the illegal content," he added. "This is a fundamentally different approach to responsibilities on the Internet. We think the author of the information is responsible for his own actions, not the provider."
I hope the IRA blows up these Internet Watch motherfuckers.
If I don`t get there first...
Is this Blair guy any saner than the tory bastards?
Calling any democratic polotician, especially in the UK, sane, is a big mistake. However, if we may rephrase and ask if he is any less deranged we can safely answer "no". I heard a wonderful comment on the cryptography@c2 list earlier that Jack Straw (the new Labour home secretary, who is in charge of law and order) may be defined as the only person for whom anal sex with michael howard (his predecessor) counts as masturbation. They both even look deranged (Michael Howard looked rather like a serial killer and jack straw looks like a church reject). I don`t know about crypto policy, Labour are supposed to be opposed to mandatory GAK but this is of course a small issue when put in perspective. The new labour administration are a group of anti-drugs, anti-"crime" misfits who I hope go the same way as the previous leader of the labour party, John Smith, who died of a heart attack. Just to give you some overview of the fuck ups we now have governing the UK I present a list of proposals Tony Blair and his motley crew have made in the last year: Mandatory minimum sentencing for repeat offenders regardless of the opinion of the judge. State set curfews for all children under 16 regardless of their parents wishes. Parents to be held responsible for the crimes of their children if the children repeat offend. Several vague allusions towards internet censorship schemes or mandatory web page rating using PICS. Minimum wage for full time employees, regardless of the empolyees skills or the wishes of the employer. Further action to prevent "bias" and "discrimination" in the workplace, eg. "Employ this unskilled bone idle coon and we`ll lower your corporation tax 2%" Further plans for yet more CCTV cameras in public places. Mandatory ID cards for citizens (This one sounds like a joke, believe me it is not). A ban on all handguns even when registered (currently all pistols above .22 are banned and all guns have to be registered in a process whereby if the applicant for a certificate has any history of political dissention or crime (eg. Smoking a joint, the ultimate sin against society) the certificate will be refused. Yet more spending on welfare to support the pieces of shit in the gutter I pass every day.
And if he chooses not to remove the content you happen to find offensive? If you truly believed in the rights of the author and publisher of the information you would think about it before sending in your own particular brand of thugs to "crush the mutiny".
Perhaps we should further expose XS4ALL's hypocricy by renting from the web space and putting up some pages they won't like.
I think this is an excellent idea, I`ll call or mail them in a few days to find out their pricing structure.
Yet when violation of the law is flagrant, XS4ALL doesn't hesitate to comply, as it did a few weeks ago when it shut down a customer's home page called Neuroroom, which sold marijuana and other soft drugs in Holland and abroad.
Sometimes one really wonders why we bother to set up mirrors to allow freedom of information to users, when the owners of these servers, supposedly in favour of free speech, do not even have the strength of character or conviction to decide for themselves what they will allow on their servers rather than bending over for the long cock of the law...
The ISP is not a court to decide that a web page offering MJ for sale is "illegal".
Absolutely, besides which, even though I believe in the right of people to be as bigotted and statist as they see fit, there are only so many causes we can support and coming in on the side of XS4ALL knowing their record seems ill advised to me. If they truly deserved our support they would retain the pages whether they were legal or not.
"Basically any project we like gets free resources from XS4ALL," Rodriquez commented.
And anyone who guarantees to publicly lick the boots of the benevolent owners in thanks for their support gets as much free space as they like?
Of course I believe in the right to free expression of anyone and if these thugs choose not to allow material they don`t like on their servers they have every right to remove it. I just don`t see that setting up mirrors to defeat blocks on sites that refuse to carry certain content is of any value in the fight for free speech. Sure, create a mirror of Radikal, but giving any credit or attribution to XS4ALL seems to be a poor choice.
My understanding is that Radikal is a harmless, toothless liberal rag that the Germans had no grounds for censoring in the first place. Mirroring it is no big deal. How about mirroring the MJ page that the bastards at XS4ALL censored?
I actually went to the page once, nearly brought some bud but as I recall they didn`t have an SSL link so I chose not to transmit my CCN. I don`t have a copy, but if XS4ALL have any balls at all they will send us a copy. I`ll get onto them about this later.
Actually, I don't think mirroring is a good technology either. The "eternal server" posted a few days ago seems VERY VERY promising, I'm very exited about this technology - many many thanks.
No, it isn`t really but was, for all intents and purposes, the best we had. I haven`t yet seen the eternal server idea but I`ll trawl the archives for it. Paul "Can`t really be bothered to re-do his .sig file yet" Bradley
see, the whole problem here is the same as usual. people mixing up pot with "other" allegedly "soft drugs." Pot must never be mixed up with anything. On Sat, 3 May 1997, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
Date: Sat, 03 May 97 08:57:37 EDT From: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv@bwalk.dm.com> Reply-To: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Artikel about XS4ALL in New York
[cc'd to freedom-knights, who don't appreciate censorship of mj web pages]
Paul Bradley <paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk> writes:
anarchists, bent on disrupting society," Rodriquez told the Dutch daily Trouw. "But now they have come to see that we are nice and quiet people really."
The only "nice people" are dangerous anarchists bent on destroying governments and buggering poloticians to death. (last part a personal preference of course, the author is totally straight but would nonetheless be distinctly amused to see any government official butt-raped to death)
I, personally, would have to use a dildo. Even if I were queer, I wouldn't get it up for a politician or a Cabal supporter.
Yes, let's fuck Chris Lewis to death with a 27" dildo!!!1!!1!
an Excellent Idea!
The company was instrumental in the creation of the Amsterdam Digital The hotline is run by Internet users and providers. Unlike Britain's Internet Watch Foundation, the Dutch hotline doesn't censor any information nor does it ask the provider to do so. Hotline operators contact the author of the information and ask him to remove the offending content. "If the author does not comply, we report him to the police, and he'll be prosecuted," said Rodriquez, who also is chairman of the Dutch Providers Association.
Both asking the author to remove contents, and contacting the police are dishonorable acts. Even if the US, honorable providers tell the complainers: if it's something illegal, call the cops and leave us out of it.
See, you can not trust any of those fucking foreigh Countries. Even Holland, which is supposed to be the home for pot, arrests people for "offending content." It has become apparent that the First Amendment which guarantees Freedom Of Speech, must be applied world-wide, in order to protect de-facto Universal Freedoms, which all come from Common Law.
"The Internet Watch Foundation forces the provider to remove the illegal content," he added. "This is a fundamentally different approach to responsibilities on the Internet. We think the author of the information is responsible for his own actions, not the provider."
I hope the IRA blows up these Internet Watch motherfuckers. Is this Blair guy any saner than the tory bastards?
And if he chooses not to remove the content you happen to find offensive? If you truly believed in the rights of the author and publisher of the information you would think about it before sending in your own particular brand of thugs to "crush the mutiny".
Perhaps we should further expose XS4ALL's hypocricy by renting from the web space and putting up some pages they won't like.
I like the idea of attacking and eliminating their POP altogether. He who interferes with Freedom Of Speech deserves to have their POP eliminated.
Yet when violation of the law is flagrant, XS4ALL doesn't hesitate to comply, as it did a few weeks ago when it shut down a customer's home page called Neuroroom, which sold marijuana and other soft drugs in Holland and abroad.
soft drugs? "drugs" is a bad word. pot is not a "drug" by the common connotation in society. pot is a medicine and an herb.
Sometimes one really wonders why we bother to set up mirrors to allow freedom of information to users, when the owners of these servers, supposedly in favour of free speech, do not even have the strength of character or conviction to decide for themselves what they will allow on their servers rather than bending over for the long cock of the law...
The ISP is not a court to decide that a web page offering MJ for sale is "illegal".
The company's commitment to support free expression and democratization of the Internet doesn't stop here.
As far as I can see it hasn`t even started yet.
Last fall when the Serbian government censored radio station B-92, XS4ALL helped design an Internet campaign and started to carry news broadcasts (in RealAudio format) that kept the rare opposition voice alive and the international public informed through independent accounts of the events occurring during the mass demonstrations in Belgrade.
I presume B-92 fell into line and matched the "requirements under law for obtaining a free-speech permit" before XS4ALL allowed this/
It's because Germans will gladly do anything to fuck over the Serbs. I bet XS4All wouldn't host a web page for Karajic.
"Basically any project we like gets free resources from XS4ALL," Rodriquez commented.
And anyone who guarantees to publicly lick the boots of the benevolent owners in thanks for their support gets as much free space as they like?
Of course I believe in the right to free expression of anyone and if these thugs choose not to allow material they don`t like on their servers they have every right to remove it. I just don`t see that setting up mirrors to defeat blocks on sites that refuse to carry certain content is of any value in the fight for free speech. Sure, create a mirror of Radikal, but giving any credit or attribution to XS4ALL seems to be a poor choice.
My understanding is that Radikal is a harmless, toothless liberal rag that the Germans had no grounds for censoring in the first place. Mirroring it is no big deal. How about mirroring the MJ page that the bastards at XS4ALL censored?
Actually, I don't think mirroring is a good technology either. The "eternal server" posted a few days ago seems VERY VERY promising, I'm very exited about this technology - many many thanks.
Yes, I read about that. I sure hope it is possible.
---
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
"Freedom Of Speech" must become the Universal World Standard for the InterNet. We have a long way to go. medpot(tm)foundation
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Paul Bradley