My main complaints about the `filtering' service forced upon the list readership are that: 1. It was done to the main list! If cypherpunks were left unchanged, and a `cypherpunks-edited' were created I wouldn't have a problem, it would be just another filtered list. However there are already several filtered lists, so the usefulness of this is limited anyway. Merely including details of these filtered lists in the sign on message, and posting a reminder every few weeks would suffice. I and apparently, most others didn't choose to subscribe to a filtering service. I object to this choice being over-ridden. OK, so I can re-subscribe to cypherpunks (cypherpunks-unedited), but many won't bother. (Actually I subscribe to cypherpunks-flames and cypherpunks, as the most efficient way of receiving all messages, and still being able to see the moderation results). 2. The impetus for moderating the main list seems to be as a result of a few posts by Dimitri. Really, if this is all it takes to destroy an unmoderated list, I've got to laugh at cypherpunks collectively. Why is it such a big deal to press the `n' key, if you don't like what Dimitri, or anyone else, has to say? If your time is too valuable to press `n' keys, what is wrong with subscribing to the existing filtered lists? Or with setting up a kill-file? Or maybe generating a bit of signal yourself? 3. It is even more funny that in my opinion Dimitri purposefully set out to raise the issue of censorship (after his own partial censorship), and has succeeded to this extent. The whole thing is just allowing yourself to be manipulated by his transparent efforts. 4. There is already a moderated forum for discussion of cypherpunks issues: cryptography@c2.net, why do we need another one? My vote is for renaming: `cypherpunks-unedited' -> `cypherpunks' and `cypherpunks' -> `cypherpunks-edited' and for moving all those still on the edited list to the unedited list. Post a note advertising the availability of a new filtering service called `cypherpunks-edited@toad.com', along with the references to the other competing filtering services. If at the end of the trial forced moderation period, John Gilmore doesn't have the bandwidth on toad.com to support all of `cypherpunks', `cypherpunks-edited' and `cypherpunks-flames', I suggest that a new home is found for `cypherpunks'. Or perhaps Sandy as proponent of his filtering service, would be able to find a home for `sandys-filtered-cypherpunks' service, as with the other filtering services. Personally, I am not in the habit of flaming people, or using the word `fuck', in general discussion, but I find the way this `filtering service' was foisted on the main list highly objectionable. Adam -- print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`