"Matthew J. Miszewski" writes:

just trying to counter some of the statements made here. Sometimes people view cpunks as some sort of borg-like mind with no dissidents.

"Cypher punks" is a private mailing list owned by the asshole censor John Gilmore who unsubscribes whoever dares post something John doesn't like. His mailing list is a laughing stock for the media. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

Ray Arachelian writes:

On Sun, 22 Dec 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

...

"Matthew J. Miszewski" writes:

...

just trying to counter some of the statements made here. Sometimes peopl view cpunks as some sort of borg-like mind with no dissidents.

"Cypher punks" is a private mailing list owned by the asshole censor John Gilmore who unsubscribes whoever dares post something John doesn't like.

QED, he must REALLY like you since you're obviously still here; either that, or you're full of shit as usual.

I'm sure Earthnet must be *very* embarrassed about having hired such a lying twit for ssociate network manager. For those who haven't gotten the story straight, or are confused by the lies being spread by the various genocidal Armenian maniacs (like Dale seemed to be at one point), I'll reiterate: John Gilmore unsubscribed me from this mailing list (in a very rude manner) and I am not allowed to resubscribe. I am not subscribed to this mailing list. John Gilmore announced on this mailing list that he did it because he didn't like the content of my submissions. He repeated this to Declan McCullough. Later, when he realized how badly his censorship reflected on him and his EFF, he had Timmy May post another lie, claiming that I was kicked off this list for posting too much, and defending Gilmore's content-based censorship. Ray Arachelian obviously lies again when he claims that I'm "obviously still here". But what else could be expected from an Armenian. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

Ray Arachelian wrote:

On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

...

John Gilmore unsubscribed me from this mailing list (in a very rude manner) and I am not allowed to resubscribe. I am not subscribed to this mailing list.

Funny, you post messages here, you read messages from here, IMHO, you haven't been unscumscribed.

Dr. Vulis has in fact been forcibly unsubscribed. He's on my "who cypherpunks" list as of 12 Oct 1996, but does not appear as of 04 Nov, 30 Nov, and 18 Dec, when I last asked for a list. The fact that he still reads the list and does posts only adds to the arguments against censorship, specifically John Gilmore's censorship. (This has got to be embarrassing for Gilmore, hee hee. I'll bet he practices keeping a straight face in front of a mirror, in case anyone brings it up in person.) If, as has been said, assassination is the ultimate form of censorship, then Dr. Vulis has been shot, stoned, beat on, and cement-booted, but he still lives and is a thorn (no pun intended) in the side of would- be censors on the Internet.

Ray Arachelian writes:

On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

...

John Gilmore unsubscribed me from this mailing list (in a very rude manner) and I am not allowed to resubscribe. I am not subscribed to this mailing li

Funny, you post messages here, you read messages from here, IMHO, you haven't been unscumscribed.

Now you're calling John Gilmore a liar, because he admitted pulling my plug: ]Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA17866 for cypherpunks-outgoing; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 02:13:32 -0800 (PST) ]Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA17861; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 02:13:26 -0800 (PST) ]Message-Id: <199611021013.CAA17861@toad.com> ]X-Authentication-Warning: toad.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol ]To: cypherpunks@toad.com, gnu@toad.com ]Subject: Dr. Vulis is not on cypherpunks any more ]Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 02:13:26 -0800 ]From: John Gilmore ]Sender: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com ]Precedence: bulk ] ]As stated by Dr. Vulis, he is no longer on the cypherpunks mailing ]list, and indeed majordomo@toad.com HAS been instructed to ignore his ]requests to resubscribe. ] ]I removed him, on my own initiative. I got tired of asking him to ]stop stirring up flames. When he posted a message saying that we'd ]have to use technical means to stop him from flaming the list, I said, ]"OK". ] ]Tim May was not involved. ] ]I've met Dr. Vulis in person. He seemed like a reasonable guy. I ]treated him that way for months, despite his inability to control ]himself on the list. When he ultimately declined to control his ]outbursts after numerous personal requests, I removed him. ] ]The cypherpunks list is for discussions centered around cryptography. ]I'm sure there are several mailing lists where ethnic cleansing ]discussions would be welcome. There are probably even mailing lists ]which encourage people to fire off their best inflammatory messages. ]If there aren't, Dr Vulis could start one. I don't sponsor any. ] ]Cypherpunks, please resist your own temptation to bait him (or anyone ]else). The best defense a mailing list has against flames is to ]simply ignore them. When they don't provoke an emotional response, ]they don't accomplish the poster's goal, and the poster eventually ]wanders off in search of more naive pastures. ] ] John Gilmore ] Note that John clearly unsubscribed me because he didn't like the contents of my messages. Later Timmy May claimed that it had something to do with the size of my submissions (another lie). --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

While on the subject of Yebonics: The following funny (what else) article just showed up in my rec.humor.funny: ]From: feuer@netcom.com (Ted Feuerbach) ]Newsgroups: rec.humor.funny ]Subject: Ebonics: Other New Dialects ]Keywords: topical, smirk, stereotypes ]Message-ID: ]Date: Tue, 24 Dec 96 3:20:01 EST ]Lines: 26 ]Approved: funny-request@clari.net ] ]With the Oakland (California) School District accepting Ebonics ](Black English) as a Second Language, I decided that speakers of ]other dialects will want theirs too. ] ]People from: West Virginia - Hillbonics ] ] Jamaica - Mononics ] ] Scotland - Hootmononics ] ] The Southwest - Hisponics ] ] Texas - JoeBonics ] ] Extreme North - Eh?onics ] ] ]The whole concept: Moronics ] ]-- ]Selected by Jim Griffith. MAIL your joke to funny@clari.net. ]The "executive moderator" is Brad Templeton. ] ]Please! No copyrighted stuff. Also no "mouse balls," dyslexic agnostics, ]Clinton/Yeltsin/Gates meets God, or "OJ will walk" jokes. For the full ]submission guidelines, see http://comedy.clari.net/rhf/ --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Dale Thorn wrote:

Dr. Vulis has in fact been forcibly unsubscribed. He's on my "who cypherpunks" list as of 12 Oct 1996, but does not appear as of 04 Nov, 30 Nov, and 18 Dec, when I last asked for a list.

As far as majordomo is concerned, - yes. However, there are those who subscribe invisible and therefore wouldn't show up when you say "who cypherpunks" to majordomo@toad.com.

The fact that he still reads the list and does posts only adds to the arguments against censorship, specifically John Gilmore's censorship. (This has got to be embarrassing for Gilmore, hee hee. I'll bet he practices keeping a straight face in front of a mirror, in case anyone brings it up in person.)

I will not argue on John's reaction since I do not know him, nor have I met him, however, the fact that Vulis posts and reads cypherpunks means he's still here.

If, as has been said, assassination is the ultimate form of censorship, then Dr. Vulis has been shot, stoned, beat on, and cement-booted, but he still lives and is a thorn (no pun intended) in the side of would- be censors on the Internet.

If he had been ultimatly censored, shot, stoned, beat on, and cement-booted, he certainly wouldn't be able to post. He's still here. So the above is bullshit. It's not a question that he found a way to read from and post to the cypherpunks list. He hasn't been prevented from doing so, therefore his unsubscription hasn't been enforced, so he's still here. If before he was unsubscribed he was able to post messages and read messages, and now that he's unsubscribed he's able to post messages and read messages, what's the difference to the rest of us on the list? As far as we can see, he's still subscribed. Never mind that he gets his messages from usenet or elsewhere, he's still here. There is NO difference to the rest of cypherpunks. =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian | "If you're gonna die, die with your|./|\. ..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|boots on; If you're gonna try, just |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |stick around; Gonna cry? Just move along|\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |you're gonna die, you're gonna die!" |.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"| --Iron Maiden "Die With Your Boots on"|..... ======================== http://www.sundernet.com =========================

Ray Arachelian writes:

Right, I agree that you have been removed from majordomo's list of "subscribers" however you haven't been removed in as much as you can still read the list and in as much as you can post messages.

Is that what you had in mind when you repeatedly asked John Gilmore to remove me from his mailing list, Ray? You made both of you look like real assholes. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Tue, 24 Dec 1996, Ray Arachelian wrote:

...

If, as has been said, assassination is the ultimate form of censorship, then Dr. Vulis has been shot, stoned, beat on, and cement-booted, but he still lives and is a thorn (no pun intended) in the side of would- be censors on the Internet.

If he had been ultimatly censored, shot, stoned, beat on, and cement-booted, he certainly wouldn't be able to post. He's still here. So the above is bullshit.

It's extremely trivial to prevent someone from posting to a mailing list. The fact that John Gilmore has not done this probably means that he doesn't want to rather than an inability to do the above.

It's not a question that he found a way to read from and post to the cypherpunks list. He hasn't been prevented from doing so, therefore his unsubscription hasn't been enforced, so he's still here.

Anyone can read cypherpunks and there's not much anyone can do to prevent someone from receiving list traffic. However, this doesn't really matter. An ISP that pulls the plug on a spammer doesn't try to prevent that person from reading or posting to that newsgroup. That person won't be able to do it using the ISP's resources. Mark - -- finger -l for PGP key PGP encrypted mail prefered. 0xf9b22ba5 now revoked -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBMsAZzCzIPc7jvyFpAQGZcggAgDP3Tz9tmMEe0zuvFzTLKiQZ8nlYPxby 8HlqoUSbgNpy31b8JvLvT7Ir8C3xn7WL4/E1S3AnV1s/TMojM+KCxT/iwC8ZDeh1 7Cyx3BVdp/fUSQxQs6fRnS/bLAlkbntbnJzMQEEBmVmX5nn8ACB9RY3u04Fd8els JoWXpNPdIUPYo61MHXQbSiHws/6O3yRDlJsQr8rokINjslazBbA+1DPTJfgPu4si ffXDtUEjEHC+MyHzvA0ablhLc9TL5R5Vc5DL6dhQNfRP8ow9EggUcG0EuHupefcC Q09FIWKYwv0P1oPwIGUGY3lJEPQadw45lrXjs7/KnGKfhvGR/eNjRg== =4KOs -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Ray Arachelian wrote:

On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Dale Thorn wrote:

...

Dr. Vulis has in fact been forcibly unsubscribed. He's on my "who cypherpunks" list as of 12 Oct 1996, but does not appear as of 04 Nov, 30 Nov, and 18 Dec, when I last asked for a list.

As far as majordomo is concerned, - yes. However, there are those who subscribe invisible and therefore wouldn't show up when you say "who cypherpunks" to majordomo@toad.com.

I subscribed to this list at the recommendation of someone else, and at the time it was my first experience on the "new" Internet, i.e., browsers and such (three years ago when I got on and off it was numeric menus only as far as I know). It's interesting to me how many ways there are to do things, and how many ways there are to get around them. For example, there must have been more than one way Gilmore could have dealt with Dimitri (he chose the worst), and there must have been several ways Dimitri could get around the ban (he chose a very easy methodology, apparently, which sure makes me wonder what Gilmore was trying to do).

It's not a question that he found a way to read from and post to the cypherpunks list. He hasn't been prevented from doing so, therefore his unsubscription hasn't been enforced, so he's still here.

Hasn't been enforced? Are you saying that Gilmore is trying to tell us: "Hi, I'm John Gilmore. I'm cutting Dr. Vulis off the list, but actually, I'm not cutting him off. Hee hee." (April Fools, or something like that). I can handle the humor, if that's what you're getting at.

If before he was unsubscribed he was able to post messages and read messages, and now that he's unsubscribed he's able to post messages and read messages, what's the difference to the rest of us on the list? As far as we can see, he's still subscribed. Never mind that he gets his messages from usenet or elsewhere, he's still here. There is NO difference to the rest of cypherpunks.

Well, if there was *no* difference, why was there so much traffic on it? I dare say that that thread was the biggest (and most divisive) of all time.

Ray Arachelian wrote:

On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

...

Ray Arachelian writes:

...

On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

...

John Gilmore unsubscribed me from this mailing list (in a very rude manner) and I am not allowed to resubscribe. I am not subscribed to this mailing li

And yet, you post to cypherpunks@toad.com, and you read messages from cypherpunks@toad.com. QED: You're still here.

This must be what is called a nonsequitur. He can *always* be here, one way or another. That was never the point.

Dale Thorn writes:

this is a crypto list, and there are all those NSA spooks watching everything we do....

Watching and laughing, no doubt. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

On Tue, 24 Dec 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

Dale Thorn writes:

...

this is a crypto list, and there are all those NSA spooks watching everything we do....

Watching and laughing, no doubt.

And paying you to cause FUD, no doubt. =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian | "If you're gonna die, die with your|./|\. ..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|boots on; If you're gonna try, just |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |stick around; Gonna cry? Just move along|\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |you're gonna die, you're gonna die!" |.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"| --Iron Maiden "Die With Your Boots on"|..... ======================== http://www.sundernet.com =========================