In local.lists.cypherpunks-moderated you write:

In <199712041316.IAA18769@Empire.Net>, on 12/04/97 at 08:16 AM, tom <tom@Empire.Net> said:

...

First define your terms. Then talk about murder.

Hmmmm well the safest answer to this is at the point of conception though I would imagine that it is hard for most to consider a couple of cells life. :=/

Abstinance is murder. Letting just _one_ egg miss fertilization denies that egg the chance to become a human being. I think that the felony charge should be manslaughter for this crime as it's not quite as bad as: Birth control Birth control is nothing more than premeditated murder, though I think that a plea-bargain in most cases should be offered: Drop the charge to manslaughter if the perp agrees to artificial insemination with the eggs of some woman who is unable to get pregnant due to some medical condition. However, I hope that medical research is improved to the point where the male can carry the child in such cases. Just think of all of the wonderful people who won't ever be born because some geek is wanking into a tissue, or some thirteen year old is kept from fucking by their prudish parents. Now _these_ people should be brought up on accessory charges... As for Gays and Lezbians, well, sorry but that's right out. Such unproductive behaviour cannot be tolerated.

William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii

Regards, -- Steve Thompson Misanthrope System Administrator Spam: bogus@myofb.org --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Usenet II -- Because it's time for October. Who knows what the ostrich - Malcolm Ray in n.s.u. sees in the sand. Save the hermetic seals. - Samuel Beckett