Re: Zimmermann legal fund
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In article <199507302224.PAA10093@blob.best.net>, jamesd@echeque.com ("James A. Donald") wrote:
Many years ago I obtained a US account by mail from overseas, using cheques made out to me from US sources.
I did this with the bank of America. No big problem. But as time went by, their ability to handle financial events that were out of the ordinary deteriorated spectacularly.
Perhaps this is partly because things tightened up, but it is also that most US banks have developed a monolithic and obstructionist bureaucracy that is incapable of handling any event that is out of the ordinary.
Six years ago, you could walk into a Bank, show them your driver license, and open an account. Today, you need several pieces of ID. Three years ago, you could withdraw money from your own account without having your checkbook on you. Today, they make you pay for a "counter check". One year ago, you could walk into a bank an cash a check drawn onto an account at the very same bank. Today (Coast Federal), they make you pay a $10 check cashing fee. The US banking industry has gone to the dogs. The day a non-US bank offers an account that can be accessed over the net will be the day I close my US accounts. - -- - -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred. - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBMBwQDCoZzwIn1bdtAQGqHQF8C1QShMuN0Eq74mMI5rculIym8xjzYV8C mErjtB8tJ7UseKD9bmNY6dpWqBviplMp =aBGi -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
The US banking industry has gone to the dogs. The day a non-US bank offers an account that can be accessed over the net will be the day I close my US accounts.
Interesting idea ... 1st question or thing I would want to be certain of is the stability of the currency of the realm so to speak. I wouldn't want to bank in a country that had a weak currencey (sp) or was subject to roller coaster economics. -Mike ************************************************************************** * Personal internet account, opinions and ideas do not reflect those * * of my employer * * Mike Bailey (hm)214-252-3915 * * email bailey@computek.net (wk)214-456-4510 * * * * "Remember you can tune a piano but you can't tuna fish -Joe Walsh" * * http://www.computek.net/public/bailey/ * **************************************************************************
On Sun, 30 Jul 1995, Mike Bailey wrote:
The US banking industry has gone to the dogs. The day a non-US bank offers an account that can be accessed over the net will be the day I close my US accounts.
Interesting idea ...
1st question or thing I would want to be certain of is the stability of the currency of the realm so to speak. I wouldn't want to bank in a country that had a weak currencey (sp) or was subject to roller coaster economics.
How could it be worse than with the U.S. of A.?? ;-) Seriously: you may bank in US Dollars (or other major currencies) in many countries, including all the offshore banking centres. Limited amounts of cash may be withdrawn using ATM dispensers, against a fee of two or three USD per operation; for larger amounts, you may ask them to wire money by SWIFT, Telex or bank drafts to other banks or genric payees. For such operations, most large banks accept instructions by snail mail, and sometimes by fax (if the customer signs a letter of indemnity exempting the bank from liabilities in case of forgeries). Sadly, AFAIK no bank is accepting digitally encrypted and signed e-mail instructions, and issuing digitally encrypted and signed receipts.
On Mon, 31 Jul 1995, Enzo Michelangeli wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jul 1995, Mike Bailey wrote:
The US banking industry has gone to the dogs. The day a non-US bank offers an account that can be accessed over the net will be the day I close my US accounts.
Interesting idea ...
1st question or thing I would want to be certain of is the stability of the currency of the realm so to speak. I wouldn't want to bank in a country that had a weak currencey (sp) or was subject to roller coaster economics.
How could it be worse than with the U.S. of A.?? ;-)
Seriously: you may bank in US Dollars (or other major currencies) in many countries, including all the offshore banking centres. Limited amounts of cash may be withdrawn using ATM dispensers, against a fee of two or three USD per operation; for larger amounts, you may ask them to wire money by SWIFT, Telex or bank drafts to other banks or genric payees. For such operations, most large banks accept instructions by snail mail, and sometimes by fax (if the customer signs a letter of indemnity exempting the bank from liabilities in case of forgeries). Sadly, AFAIK no bank is accepting digitally encrypted and signed e-mail instructions, and issuing digitally encrypted and signed receipts.
I'm feel that this type of banking is just around the corner with the coming tidal wave of internet based commerce. My primary concern would be something along this senario ... I open an account with U.S. $$ in a foreign bank who uses francs (don't flame the denonimation or the choice this is just an exammple ;-) ... a month later the franc loses 20 % of it's value as compared to the U.S. dollar. If I close out my account would I not lose 20% of my money because when the money was deposited it was credited to the account in francs ... and when it is withdrawn it converted back to $$ at the current conversion rate ? Maybe this was answered in the previous reply if so call me *thick* if not call me *paranoid*. -Mike ************************************************************************** * Personal internet account, opinions and ideas do not reflect those * * of my employer * * Mike Bailey (hm)214-252-3915 * * email bailey@computek.net (wk)214-456-4510 * * * * "Remember you can tune a piano but you can't tuna fish -Joe Walsh" * * http://www.computek.net/public/bailey/ * **************************************************************************
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, On Mon, 31 Jul 1995, Mike Bailey wrote:
I open an account with U.S. $$ in a foreign bank who uses francs ... a month later the franc loses 20 % of it's value as compared to the U.S. dollar. If I close out my account would I not lose 20% of my money because when the money was deposited it was credited to the account in francs ... and when it is withdrawn it converted back to $$ at the current conversion rate ?
If the account is denominated in francs, you take the hit. If it is denominated in dollars, you don't. S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 12:12:16 +0800 (HKT) From: Enzo Michelangeli <enzo@ima.com> How could it be worse than with the U.S. of A.?? ;-) OK... think about Venezuela. It has bad inflation. It has laws against converting local currency to US dollars on the black market, which is basically defined as any agency/person/corporate entity exchanging at a worse rate than the government rate (at least in Venezuela itself; you can pay your foreign creditors in Bolivars and exchange them on the open market for twice the official exchange rate); all government-rate currency transactions must go through a special currency review board that checks to see if you _really_ need to exchange currency. It is illegal to bribe this board and impossible to get a request acknowledged inside a year without bribery (if it isn't denied because you didn't bribe the members of the board). Of course, one day the U.S. may be this bad. Phil
On Mon, 31 Jul 1995, Phil Fraering wrote:
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 12:12:16 +0800 (HKT) From: Enzo Michelangeli <enzo@ima.com>
How could it be worse than with the U.S. of A.?? ;-)
OK... think about Venezuela. It has bad inflation. It has laws against converting local currency to US dollars on the black market, which is basically defined as any agency/person/corporate entity exchanging at a worse rate than the government rate (at least in Venezuela itself; [...]
Hey, I was joking: even without arriving to such extremes, banking in Europe is, more often than not, a much worse experience than in USA. My point, anyway, was that there are many offshore banking centres where you may keep accounts denominated in USD, Deutsche Marks, Swiss Francs or other reputable currencies, and also choose branches of reputable international banks, even American ones if you like (Citybank, Chase and many other are represented world-wide). Personally, as bank I like the HSBC Holdings group or other "British-overseas" institutions like Standard Chartered, and as haven currency the Singapore Dollar (due to the very strong balance sheet of that country). In any case, the depositor may choose. Unfortunately, the costs of international transfers of funds are still pretty high, even between branches of the same bank. If I remit funds from Hong Kong to another country, my bank charges me HKD 100. (around USD 20) per operation, flat. In other countries there are additional commissions proportional to the amount (0.125% from Singapore, 0.1% from Macau etc). Sometimes, charges are levied on incoming remittances too. That situation is partly dependent on the regulatory framework, and partly on the oligopolistic nature of the banking business. In any case, it makes international transfers not viable for the settlement of small bills; that may be the reason why First Virtual is still stuck with USA-only merchant accounts. Now, my main objection to opening a US account is that it's unclear whether or not, for simply receiving payments there, a non-resident and non-citizen account holder like myself incurs in any tax liability with Uncle Sam's Inland Revenue. Can anybody on this list shed light on the issue? Last time I checked, the guys at FV weren't sure either.
On Sun, 30 Jul 1995, Lucky Green wrote:
Six years ago, you could walk into a Bank, show them your driver license, and open an account. Today, you need several pieces of ID. Three years ago, you could withdraw money from your own account without having your checkbook on you. Today, they make you pay for a "counter check". One year ago, you could walk into a bank an cash a check drawn onto an account at the very same bank. Today (Coast Federal), they make you pay a $10 check cashing fee.
When I lived in California, I banked at Security Pacific, then changed over my account to BofA. When I left the bay area, I closed my account, not knowing that someone had sat on a check for $120 - I thought it was me just entering an ATM receipt twice (as I do from time to time). So, someone from a place called ChexSystems sends me a letter, saying "well, you had a check go through and the bank paid it, please pay us." So, I send them the $120 or whatever it was. When I tried to open a checking acount in Utah, I find that I can't, for the sole reason that I had been "reported to ChexSystems". I explained the situation to no avail. BofA refuses to remove the charge, saying that it's "against their policy". ChexSystems refuses to do anything about it, saying that "it was a valid debt", one which I neither knew about nor agreed to. If the bank would've mailed me a letter, saying that they bounced the check, or paid it and please remit, I would've been happy to. Instead, they chose to try and screw me over by reporting the so-called "debt" to some sort of check reporting system. From my point of view, the action by the bank was malicious and done with the intent of causing me harm. I don't recommend anyone doing business with BofA for this reason, and I strongly urge that people immediately close their accounts with BofA, refuse to do business with them, and switch to another bank which refuses to participate in such malicious practices. I'm *not* impressed. -- Ed Carp, N7EKG Ed.Carp@linux.org, ecarp@netcom.com 801/534-8857 voicemail 801/460-1883 digital pager Finger ecarp@netcom.com for PGP 2.5 public key an88744@anon.penet.fi Q. What's the trouble with writing an MS-DOS program to emulate Clinton? A. Figuring out what to do with the other 639K of memory.
participants (6)
-
Ed Carp [khijol SysAdmin] -
Enzo Michelangeli -
Mike Bailey -
Phil Fraering -
Sandy Sandfort -
shamrock＠netcom.com