Re: Admiral Inman
Subject: Re: Admiral Inman From: "Connie Sadler"@MR.STANFORD.EDU Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 07:58:00 PDT A1-type: DOCUMENT Posting-date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 00:00:00 PDT In list.cypherpunks, jgrubs@voxbox.norden1.com writes:
jamiel@sybase.com (Jamie Lawrence) writes:
It does amaze me that what can be a victimless activity is such a hotbutton.
Drugs are victimless? What about crack babies, which cost a million dollars EACH in medical care, btw.
Exactly! And this is just one example of the victims. What about the extremely high rate of crime motivated by the need for drugs? I have personally been a victim twice (theft of my car and *nice stereo system* and a breakin to my house where much was taken) in crimes which appeared to be motivated by the the need for drugs. I don't see where legalizing drugs would motivate addicts to start working to legitimately pay for their habits. CJS
Connie Sadler writes
What about the extremely high rate of crime motivated by the need for drugs? I have personally been a victim twice (theft of my car and *nice stereo system* and a breakin to my house where much was taken)
These crimes were not caused by drugs, but by the war on drugs. Now even if heroin was legal, a junkie would be more inclined to lie and steal than a sober person, just as a drunk is more inclined to get into fights than a sober person, but heroin is not in itself a major cause of theft, just as alcohol is not in itself a major cause of violence. Certainly the violence caused by alcohol is vastly less than the violence caused by prohibition. The intrinsic cost of heroin is considerably less than the the intrinsic cost of alcohol. If we abolished the FDA, a junkie could stay stoned for less than it costs a drunk to stay drunk. He would still be a no good human being, but he would be a quite and unobtrusive no good human being. Junkies are quieter than drunks and less likely to assault you. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we James A. Donald are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. jamesd@acm.org
"Connie Sadler (415)725-7703" says:
What about the extremely high rate of crime motivated by the need for drugs? I have personally been a victim twice (theft of my car and *nice stereo system* and a breakin to my house where much was taken) in crimes which appeared to be motivated by the the need for drugs. I don't see where legalizing drugs would motivate addicts to start working to legitimately pay for their habits.
No, but perhaps you could note that the price of drugs is hundreds of times higher than it would be without illegalization. Cocaine and heroin are amazingly cheap per dose before seven layers of smugglers and dealers get into the act. I used to pass by the rummy's in lower manhattan on Bowery and Lafayette Street all the time. I have yet to see a wino on the Bowery rob anyone to support his habit -- he's got plenty of options to get fucked up out of his mind for a few dollars a day. If anything, the currently illegal "white powder" drugs would be far cheaper per dose than thunderbird. We might also note that the bulk of the deadly crime associated with the drug trade is not junkies stealing to pay for their habits but dealers involved in turf wars. No more gang drive-bys if you legalize drugs, folks. When was the last time you saw a pair of liquor store owners having a gun battle over turf? Beyond this, however, is the inherent foolishness in thinking that keeping the drugs illegal will do any good. We have already seen that an order of magnitude increase in the money spent on drug enforcement over the last decade has produced NO noticeable change in the size of the drug trade, and has, if anything, made the problem worse. Drugs are even available in maxium security prisons, where, supposedly, there is absolute control over what enters and what leaves. Given that, there is no quantity of money we could possibly spend that would stop the drug trade -- even unto the point of eliminating all human freedom in our society. I am unwilling to sell my birthright for a mess of pottage. We are sacrificing billions of dollars and all our civil rights for NOTHING VISIBLE AT ALL. Even were you correct that drugs were an intolerable menace to society it has long been obvious that drug law enforcement does no good whatsoever in lowering the rate of drug "crime" and if anything causes harm by driving the price up and creating a huge profit opportunity for the unscrupulous. Perry
...
I am unwilling to sell my birthright for a mess of pottage. We are sacrificing billions of dollars and all our civil rights for NOTHING VISIBLE AT ALL. Even were you correct that drugs were an intolerable menace to society it has long been obvious that drug law enforcement does no good whatsoever in lowering the rate of drug "crime" and if anything causes harm by driving the price up and creating a huge profit opportunity for the unscrupulous.
Perry
You forgot: QED Between the rediculous amount of money and things like the RICO laws that practically wipe out rights through loopholes we'd better wake up and remember prohibition and other lessons of history. sdw -- Stephen D. Williams Local Internet Gateway Co.; SDW Systems 510 503-9227APager LIG dev./sales Internet: sdw@lig.net In Bay Area Aug94-Dec95 OO R&D Source Dist. By Horse: 2464 Rosina Dr., Miamisburg, OH 45342-6430 Internet Consulting ICBM: 39 38 34N 84 17 12W home, 37 58 41N 122 01 48W work Newbie Notice: I speak for LIGCo., CCI, myself, and no one else, regardless of where it is convenient to post from or thru.
In list.cypherpunks, jgrubs@voxbox.norden1.com writes:
jamiel@sybase.com (Jamie Lawrence) writes:
It does amaze me that what can be a victimless activity is such a hotbutton.
Drugs are victimless? What about crack babies, which cost a million dollars EACH in medical care, btw.
Exactly! And this is just one example of the victims. What about the extremely high rate of crime motivated by the need for drugs? I have personally been a victim twice (theft of my car and *nice stereo system* and a breakin to my house where much was taken) in crimes which appeared to be motivated by the the need for drugs. I don't see where legalizing drugs would motivate addicts to start working to legitimately pay for their habits.
if drugs were legal, they would be cheap, thus addicts could afford them more readily. this is easily seen in countries which do tolerate drugs. josh
participants (5)
-
Connie Sadler (415)725-7703 -
jamesd＠netcom.com -
joshua geller -
Perry E. Metzger -
sdw＠lig.net