Re: Bernstein hearing: The Press Release
At 10:24 PM 9/21/96 -0800, Jim Bell wrote:
At 11:30 PM 9/21/96 -0400, Mark M. wrote:
I believe there is one section in the Constitution that says that speech harmful to national security is not protected under the 1st amendment. I can't think of what portion of the Constitution you're referring to. But chances are, somebody else will see this reference and comment.
The First Amendment does not contain the phrase "national security" anywhere in it. It does, however, begin with a rather explicit "Congress shall make no law" which it applies to a bunch of things. However, the body of the Constitution does say there should be a Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court has (fairly reasonably) given itself the job of deciding what's Constitutional and what's not. The Supremes have, over the years, made a bunch of generally outrageous decisions about what kinds of speech are protected by the First Amendment and what kinds aren't, though their opinions have been gradually improving since some of the really appalling ones earlier in the century. By the way, alt.federal.judge.bork.bork.bork has recently come out with a book in which he discusses issues like censorship. He's in favor of it. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts@ix.netcom.com # <A HREF="http://idiom.com/~wcs"> # You can get PGP software outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Sun, 22 Sep 1996, Bill Stewart wrote:
The First Amendment does not contain the phrase "national security" anywhere in it. It does, however, begin with a rather explicit "Congress shall make no law" which it applies to a bunch of things. However, the body of the Constitution does say there should be a Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court has (fairly reasonably) given itself the job of deciding what's Constitutional and what's not. The Supremes have, over the years, made a bunch of generally outrageous decisions about what kinds of speech are protected by the First Amendment and what kinds aren't, though their opinions have been gradually improving since some of the really appalling ones earlier in the century.
I did a little searching and couldn't find anything about a national security exception in the Consitution. It's already a stretch to claim that disclosure of information vital to "nation security" is treason. The Espionage Act, which is so obviously unconstitutional, seems to make "harmful" speech illegal. Mark - -- PGP encrypted mail prefered. Key fingerprint = d61734f2800486ae6f79bfeb70f95348 http://www.voicenet.com/~markm/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBMkWIpCzIPc7jvyFpAQFJFggAi9H/vbu9GN21rbjJnhyUoHy3TEZ+1ZsI in88Z9zqCuFyv28Q+vqKgTl0pvsBQNps1Ji4GXCv2LMaxGCbuzsvDLFxiqqVF8ev fC7MB7fl1r33ik1QCngygoPonb9yj79Ok0oKgms6sNNsVEkGe3hn5QHahNc7TRJX lzkHJ6ufVI/yNmh3KtqwWlAjE1vZ8esOrExRpiszrQDK1gDlNRFqA0Yor3bsDrlE wedkFUioEbK0Xv24ajeU0s9dYgkDt25OxUENT2ddnqzD1lfVOrVLx1zmroMl4mh1 MC1D2dd8ErN25/V83phFLbpzNA7EPKYQyNZtzOY28uD/XpoqziGS1g== =CrOM -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Sun, 22 Sep 1996, Mark M. wrote:
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On Sun, 22 Sep 1996, Bill Stewart wrote:
The First Amendment does not contain the phrase "national security" anywhere in it. It does, however, begin with a rather explicit "Congress shall make no law" which it applies to a bunch of things. However, the body of the Constitution does say there should be a Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court has (fairly reasonably) given itself the job of deciding what's Constitutional and what's not. The Supremes have, over the years, made a bunch of generally outrageous decisions about what kinds of speech are protected by the First Amendment and what kinds aren't, though their opinions have been gradually improving since some of the really appalling ones earlier in the century.
I did a little searching and couldn't find anything about a national security exception in the Consitution. It's already a stretch to claim that disclosure of information vital to "nation security" is treason. The Espionage Act, which is so obviously unconstitutional, seems to make "harmful" speech illegal.
There isn't such a clause. The allowed restrictions were developed in case law. Constitutional literalists take note: the First Amendment says nothing about what the executive branch or the states can do .... EBD
Mark - -- PGP encrypted mail prefered. Key fingerprint = d61734f2800486ae6f79bfeb70f95348 http://www.voicenet.com/~markm/
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Brian Davis <bdavis@thepoint.net> [...]
Constitutional literalists take note: the First Amendment says nothing about what the executive branch or the states can do ....
The states are prohibited through the 14th Amendment via the Slaughterhouse cases, the ability of the executive branch to violate due process is questionable (from a legal viewpoint, not a practical one...the President cannot order you placed in jail unless you have broken a law which requires congress to have made the law in the first place...) jim
On Sun, 22 Sep 1996, Jim McCoy wrote:
Brian Davis <bdavis@thepoint.net> [...]
Constitutional literalists take note: the First Amendment says nothing about what the executive branch or the states can do .... Doesn't the doctrine of limited powers mean that they cannot do what is not specified? (If I'm not mistaken, IANAL, etc...)
The states are prohibited through the 14th Amendment via the Slaughterhouse cases, the ability of the executive branch to violate due process is questionable (from a legal viewpoint, not a practical one...the President cannot order you placed in jail unless you have broken a law which requires congress to have made the law in the first place...)
And the ITARs are only executive orders, no? Not laws, right? I'm curious as to why they're considered valid. Anyone know?
On Tue, 24 Sep 1996 s1113645@tesla.cc.uottawa.ca wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 1996, Jim McCoy wrote:
Brian Davis <bdavis@thepoint.net> [...]
Constitutional literalists take note: the First Amendment says nothing about what the executive branch or the states can do .... Doesn't the doctrine of limited powers mean that they cannot do what is not specified? (If I'm not mistaken, IANAL, etc...)
If so, why would we need the First Amendment to protect us from Congress regulating speech? [etc.] And, in any event, the limited powers argument wouldn't apply to the states: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." EBD
The states are prohibited through the 14th Amendment via the Slaughterhouse cases, the ability of the executive branch to violate due process is questionable (from a legal viewpoint, not a practical one...the President cannot order you placed in jail unless you have broken a law which requires congress to have made the law in the first place...)
And the ITARs are only executive orders, no? Not laws, right? I'm curious as to why they're considered valid. Anyone know?
Mark M. wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 1996, Bill Stewart wrote:
The First Amendment does not contain the phrase "national security" anywhere in it. It does, however, begin with a rather explicit "Congress shall make no law" which it applies to a bunch of things. However, the body of the Constitution does say there should be a Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court has (fairly reasonably) given itself the job of deciding what's Constitutional and what's not. The Supremes have, over the years, made a bunch of generally outrageous decisions about what kinds of speech are protected by the First Amendment and what kinds aren't, though their opinions have been gradually improving since some of the really appalling ones earlier in the century.
I did a little searching and couldn't find anything about a national security exception in the Consitution. It's already a stretch to claim that disclosure of information vital to "nation security" is treason. The Espionage Act, which is so obviously unconstitutional, seems to make "harmful" speech illegal.
Although we're (allegedly) governed by the Constitution, the principles contained in the DOI have precedence. With issues such as modern National Security (in a nuclear age, etc.), where certain aspects of the Constitution seem to get skirted or excepted for The Greater Good, you might want to include the DOI in your analysis.
participants (6)
-
Bill Stewart -
Brian Davis -
Dale Thorn -
Jim McCoy -
Mark M. -
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