FYI: NSA Requests Source Code From Elvis+
--- begin forwarded text Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Pgp-Keyid-Fprnt: C053E51D - 4FA3298150E404F2 782501876EA2146A X-Pgp: http://keys.pgp.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=Vinnie+Moscaritolo&fingerp rint=on&exact=on Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 19:39:14 -0700 To: rah@shipwright.com From: Vinnie Moscaritolo <vinnie@webstuff.apple.com> Subject: FYI: NSA Requests Source Code From Elvis+ --- begin forwarded text The following was posted on Computer Reseller News: NSA Requests Source Code From Elvis+ By Deborah Gage Mountain View, Calif. 3:00 p.m. EST Thurs., July 3, 1997 ............. The National Security Agency has asked Sun Microsystems Inc. and Elvis+, the Russian networking company in which Sun has a 10 percent stake, to turn over the source code of its SunScreen SKIP E+. At press time, Sun and the NSA still were negotiating over which parts of the code Sun must turn over. Elvis+ President and Chief Executive Alexander Galitsky has refused to turn over all the source code on the grounds that the government does not need it. "We will offer the NSA a nondisclosure agreement and two to four code modules so they can compare our source code with Sun's source code," said Steven Hunzicker, chief operating officer of Russia Communications Research Inc., a technology broker for Elvis+ in Los Gatos, Calif. "We want to be reasonable and respectful, but not foolish. To ask for the entire source code is unreasonable in any type of environment, business or otherwise. Sun wouldn't give up their whole source code to the government." This is the latest development between the government, Elvis+ and Sun over encryption policy. In May, Mountain View, Calif.-based Sun hoped to sidestep U.S. encryption laws by selling the Elvis+ technology overseas and importing it into the United States (CRN, May 26). Sun has exclusive rights to the Elvis+ products on Windows 95 and 3.11. Moreover, the Elvis+ technology is built from Sun's SKIP encryption and key management protocol. A Sun spokeswoman said Sun was in communication with the U.S. Department of Commerce, but otherwise had no comment. The Commerce Department, meanwhile, either will escalate its inquiry into a full-scale investigation or resolve the issue, said a spokeswoman for the department. The NSA declined to comment on the matter. Sources familiar with the inquiry said the Commerce Department is leaning toward quiet resolution, despite the NSA's request. "This is not a fight worth fighting," one source said. "They're watching the situation, but right now no one wants to play." Sun also acknowledged this week that the U.S. State Department is investigating the diversion of a Sun server for unapproved use in China. A Sun spokesman said the company is cooperating with the government and is in touch with both the reseller and buyer of the server in an attempt to get it back. The spokesman refused to provide further details, citing national security concerns. --- end forwarded text Vinnie Moscaritolo That Crypto Guy at Apple... http://www.vmeng.com/vinnie/ PGP: 4FA3298150E404F2782501876EA2146A DSS/DH: B36343A790489C8D4E149147D57A7566C206F586 1 if by land, 2 if by sea. Paul Revere - encryption 1775 --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
The National Security Agency has asked Sun Microsystems Inc. and Elvis+, the Russian networking company in which Sun has a 10 percent stake, to turn over the source code of its SunScreen SKIP E+.
Why should the US government get access to the source code of foreign product being imported to the US?
On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Ulf [iso-8859-1] Möller wrote:
Why should the US government get access to the source code of foreign product being imported to the US?
Because they are scum who don't care about the property rights of corporations. I wonder what would happen if Sun would instead say "Fuck you no way" or whether they were threatened into giving it up? =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian | "If you wanna touch the sky, you must |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com| be prepared to die. And I hate cough |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ | syrup, don't you?" |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, | For with those which eternal lie, with |.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"| strange aeons, even death may die. |..... ======================== http://www.sundernet.com =========================
On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Ray Arachelian wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Ulf [iso-8859-1] Möller wrote:
Why should the US government get access to the source code of foreign product being imported to the US?
Because they are scum who don't care about the property rights of corporations. I wonder what would happen if Sun would instead say "Fuck you no way" or whether they were threatened into giving it up?
After what happened to Inslaw, you would think Sun would know better than to give it to them. alano@teleport.com | "Those who are without history are doomed to retype it."
At 9:18 AM -0700 7/7/97, Ulf Möller wrote:
The National Security Agency has asked Sun Microsystems Inc. and Elvis+, the Russian networking company in which Sun has a 10 percent stake, to turn over the source code of its SunScreen SKIP E+.
Why should the US government get access to the source code of foreign product being imported to the US?
Because the United States of America is no longer a nation of laws. And because, as some clever wag put it several years ago, "'national security' is the root pass phrase of the Constitution." (Sidestepping the issue that there are many thousands of variously-interpreted laws, and presumably some law could be found somewhere which says the NSA has the authority to demand whatever they wish...) I'd like to see Sun take a strong stance on this: "Show us the specific law which lets you look at _imports_." Actually, they have a sort of case for looking at imports: If imports are unrestricted but exports are controlled, even if the export is just re-export of an import (!), then someone somewhere in government presumably has to confirm they are the same. (And there are even some laws banning reexport of cryptographic code even if it was imported, as we all know.) But the real reason is that NSA and Commerce don't like this trend of foreign developers sidestepping the U.S. crypto export laws...as with Elvis+, Stronghold, etc. And they ain't going to allow it to go on for much longer. And criminals in the Congress will compliantly give them the laws they want to put an end to this. --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
For whatever reason, the original post never made it here. Would somebody please email the cite for this NSA request? Thanks, -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Tim May wrote:
At 9:18 AM -0700 7/7/97, Ulf Möller wrote:
The National Security Agency has asked Sun Microsystems Inc. and Elvis+, the Russian networking company in which Sun has a 10 percent stake, to turn over the source code of its SunScreen SKIP E+.
participants (6)
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Alan -
Lucky Green -
Ray Arachelian -
Robert Hettinga -
Tim May -
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