Tim plans to kill a federal judge
At 3:43 PM -0700 11/13/97, Neva Remailer wrote:
Robert Hettinga wrote:
If Tim and others fail to exercise their right to say what they believe, then it is likely those rights will be suspended in due time.
Like I said before, it makes sense, but not because Foucault said it. Broken clocks, and all that. Besides, Monty, I hate appeals to authority almost as much as I hate ad honminae.
I just saw this, courtesy of Monty's reply. This is really rich. Hettinga hates "ad hominae." This from the guy who started this latest flame war with such choice phrases as: "Tim's Way Cool Latter-Day Farnham's-Freehold in the Santa Clara mountains.... a bunch of "freedom fighters" like the one you fancy yourself to be these days... instead of shoving your favorite Mac-10 up the nose of every statist treehugger you bump into out there in lotusland.... you won't have to clean the snot off the end of your gunbarrel so often..." Hettinga, heal thyself. A comment or two on the rest of what Monty is saying:
Are you asking me to use Foucault's line without giving him credit? That doesn't seem right to me.
Foucault's essay was insightful and significantly influenced my point of view. Not only does he deserve the credit, but mentioning his name may direct other interested readers toward his work.
BTW, how much of Foucault have you actually read? I am generally unfamiliar with his work, but I have a sinking feeling the same can be said for certain of his critics.
It is easy to give French intellectuals a cursory reading and conclude that there is nothing there. However, often there is quite a lot of something there, but it comes from people with a different intellectual tradition than our own so it is harder to understand. An apparently absurd sentence is often a reference to a body of work with which we are not familiar.
By the way, the same can be said about the work of Heidegger, a thinker who has had some influence on me. Whenever I cite anything Heidegger ever said, I can count on some numbskull to parrot the "Heidegger was a Nazi" shtick. (These same kind of folks use to automatically label anything Nietzsche said as tainted because of the Nazi's later affinity for some of his works, but the "rehabilitation" of Nietzsche has been largely successful, and N. is of course now a hero of the Left. Whatever. Nietzsche was of course neither a leftist nor a rightist...he was just who he was.) Hettinga has admitted basic ignorance of Foucault, just as he backpedalled furiously on the "Aurora" claims he made. (about Hettinga's repeated, and loud, claims in recent days that I have called for the death of a federal judge)
Tim has repeatedly made it clear to the world that this was not his meaning. What is your purpose in declaring otherwise?
Hettinga shows his true colors by repeating these lies over and over again. I would not be at all surprised if he has forwarded carefully excerpted fragments to his friendly FBI offices, hoping they'll make a move to investigate me.
In every other instance in which Tim has discussed capital punishment, it has been in the context of a trial.
If OJ had committed a brutal murder in a state without the death penalty, say Massachusetts, and Tim said "OJ is guilty of a capital crime", would you conclude that he was calling for his murder?
I have, over the years, expressed my constitutional opinion about many people whom I think have committed capital crimes. OJ, of course. And Lon Horiuchi, the shooter at Ruby Ridge. And, if you check the archives, Tim McVeigh. Fact is, many people have committed capital crimes. And I don't particularly feel like paying my share of the $50-100K a year to keep them well fed and housed at Club Fed, so I'd just as soon spend a quarter on a rifle round and be done with them. I don't have a clue who "Monty Cantsin" is, but his clear thinking makes it kind of a shame he will remain a nym forever, unless he declares himself. (No one, not even Vinge or Card, ever said nyms would carry the same reputation capital True Names do. Maybe someday. But not in the foreseeable future.)
Clearly that would not be reasonable. So why do you feel the meaning changes when "OJ" is substituted for "The judge"? Perhaps you harbor latent urges to murder our public officials and wish to draw attention from yourself by pointing the finger at Tim. You seem to be talking about it more than anybody else.
Indeed. Hettinga keeps quoting this "Tim plans to kill a federal judge" mantra so much that I'd better rename the thread to this just to keep Hettinga happy. There, it's done.
Incidentally, it is well documented that in the 1980s, the USG had detailed plans for mass arrests of dissident citizens. Ten army camps had been selected for this purpose. The plan was to be executed in the event the country invaded Nicaragua. The USG has incarcerated masses of U.S. citizens without trial at least twice during the 20th century.
Yep. And to show that I am not the jingoist Ito presumes I am, arresting and imprisoning those of Japanese descent without due process was, of course, a capital crime. Had I been a Japanese-American, deprived of my liberty for several years, with no evidence that I had committed a crime, and with my property forfeited to the government (often for failure to pay taxes--duh!!!!), I'd have advocated the death penalty for those who falsely imprisoned me and stole my land. But most Jap immigrants were wimps. ....
Perhaps it is your turn to crack open a book and find the reference. I would be quite interested (and surprised) if you can substantiate your claim.
Hettinga doesn't bother with research. He just shoots from the hip. He concentrates on _style_ over substance. Must be his liberal arts training. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
At 8:10 pm -0500 on 11/14/97, Tim May, Weatherman, made the wind blow again:
This is really rich. Hettinga hates "ad hominae."
Awwww, poooor *Timmy*. Did I decline a latin noun you didn't under*stand*? I'm soo sorry... (Hey, speaking of ad hominae(?) I'v got this great list of informal fallacies... You've seen it? Oh. Okay. No, that's not one. I'll show you later.)
This from the guy who started this latest flame war with such choice phrases as:
"Tim's Way Cool Latter-Day Farnham's-Freehold in the Santa Clara mountains.... a bunch of "freedom fighters" like the one you fancy yourself to be these days... instead of shoving your favorite Mac-10 up the nose of every statist treehugger you bump into out there in lotusland.... you won't have to clean the snot off the end of your gunbarrel so often..."
Hey, there's an echo in here! At least I have the common courtesy not just to cut and paste my replies, Tim. :-). You wouldn't want me to cut and paste my previous reply to your snappy synopsis, would you? I didn't think so. Actually, I don't see a *single* ad hominem in up there. Let's fix that, shall we? Let's see if I can use a few choice ones here, just to give you a flavor for what a *real* ad hominem looks like: 1. Tim just hates PGP because he's invested so much in RSA and he's a pal of Jim Bidzos. (Hey, Don't look at *me*, I only know what I read from anonymous character assasinations posted to cypherpunks. Besides, RSA's cool by me, they're FC98 sponsors, and I've even talked to Ron Rivest a couple of times... They're sponsors until they read this, anyway. =:-O. This is probably an unsubstantiated rumor, anyway. Can't possibly be true. I mean *I* don't believe it, do *you*?) Anyway, notice that the reason I gave, Tim's investment in RSA and his friendship with Bidzos, has nothing to do with his stated reasons for disliking PGP these days, whatever those reasons are. Thus this argument has no merit because it doesn't address Tim's points about the usefulness of PGP's software, say. 2. Tim just hates Japanese because he's a white european male. Not because, of course, any direct refutation of Tim's stated reasons in his discussions of Japan, whetever they were. I, um, skimmed them and then threw them away. ;-). 3. Tim hates Latin because he doesn't know any. Not, because, as evidently stated above, he finds it pretentious ("hoity-toity" is something he says a lot that might apply here) enough to mock with quotation marks. Or whatever. A correct refutation of Tim's would be what terrible mockery of a fine old dead white language his comments are, and why would Tim be so crass as to insult it, etc.
Hettinga, heal thyself.
Um, take a pill? (See? There *is* an echo in here... Isn't there?) Meanwhile, Tim's duping text this time, some 30 ignomineous lines of it :-(, which he ends with a single sentence:
Hettinga has admitted basic ignorance of Foucault, just as he backpedalled furiously on the "Aurora" claims he made.
Ah, there's that, isn't it? Actually, I don't have basic ignorance of Foucault, though my ignorance of Foucault *is* quite close, and by choice, Tim. And, I would wager, if *you* actually read Foucault, *you'd* wish you had quite close to basic ignorance, yourself... :-). (Anyway, this is all handled in another post, so I don't want to let the echo get too recursive... Wait... There's that echo again. Isn't it?). But, from the above quoted reasons, Tim concludes,
(about Hettinga's repeated, and loud, claims in recent days that I have called for the death of a federal judge)
Which doesn't exactly follow from the last sentence, does it? Sort of like, If a, then b if b then c, therefore d, which is about the grade I'd give for this kind of logic...
Hettinga shows his true colors by repeating these lies over and over again. I would not be at all surprised if he has forwarded carefully excerpted fragments to his friendly FBI offices, hoping they'll make a move to investigate me.
I would not at all be surprised if Tim really wished I would, so he'd end up in the morning papers, or, or test out his "sensors" and his AK, something. Nope. Sorry, Tim, I'm not your co-star this Dog Day Afternoon...
I have, over the years, expressed my constitutional opinion about many people whom I think have committed capital crimes.
Ah. Speaking of backpedaling. And, on the central point, no less, whether or not you made a threat on a federal judge. "Constitutional opinion", indeed. Too bad you're not using coaster brakes, Tim. You might have come to a complete stop, by now... Notice that this is not simply whether Foucault is a moral-relativist, namby-pamby-candy-assed, politically correct socialist resenter, who you yourself would line up and shoot (constitutionally, of course) at the first opportunity. If you read his stuff. Nor is it simply whether Monty knows how to read a book he's reading and type it into mail messages. (At least *I* have the courtesy to do my own book reports at length -- and at more length :-) -- in my own words without having to play human xerox machine. Ooops. I am. I do. With e$pam, I mean. Well -- never mind. Can I, um, backpedal that?) The point is that Tim, here, is equivocating on that very um, evocative statement he made which started this whole episode to begin with. The very central fact of this whole argument. Which, in case you haven't noticed, I'm winning. :-).
OJ, of course. And Lon Horiuchi, the shooter at Ruby Ridge. And, if you check the archives, Tim McVeigh. Fact is, many people have committed capital crimes. And I don't particularly feel like paying my share of the $50-100K a year to keep them well fed and housed at Club Fed, so I'd just as soon spend a quarter on a rifle round and be done with them.
Yup. Okay. So, Tim, why don't you tell me exactly how a sitting federal judge, who made a decision he's legally entitled to make, silly or not, under the constitution you liked so much as little as a year ago (or less, if memory serves), is the same kind of person, deserves the same $.25 round in the head, as a rich guy who slit his wife's throat and got away with it because he has the best lawyers money can buy, or a government goon who shoots a woman holding a baby in probable cold blood, or a, um, Freedom Fighter ;-), who blows up a few hundred people one sunny morning? I'd love to hear this. Constitutionally, of course. Oh. Right. One more thing. This is also a far cry from someone who, as little as a year ago, was disgusted and appalled when someone here made the offhand remark "let's put a round in the head of this discussion"... The ganglia, um, twitch...
I don't have a clue who "Monty Cantsin" is, but his clear thinking makes it kind of a shame he will remain a nym forever, unless he declares himself.
Especially since he's your number one apologist and lapdog these days? Spare me. I expect he'll go away once he pisses you off. Or vice versa. Given your lack of command of your tongue these days, which see this whole discussion, it shouldn't be too long...
(No one, not even Vinge or Card, ever said nyms would carry the same reputation capital True Names do. Maybe someday. But not in the foreseeable future.)
Shades of the e$ rant I was writing at the very time Tim wrote this. Short answer: They can if they just spend money, Tim, but they have to be careful. Wow. Content. I'm having so much *fun* tonight...
Indeed. Hettinga keeps quoting this "Tim plans to kill a federal judge" mantra so much that I'd better rename the thread to this just to keep Hettinga happy. There, it's done.
Why, thank you Tim. I'm honored. While you're at it, why don't you post the LAT/LONG of your house in a reply to this exact message, so the Black Helicopters don't have any trouble finding you on Thanksgiving? Actually, Tim, I think you think of yourself as Helen of Corralitos, the man who launched a thousand conspiracies. ;-). "Will no one rid me of this judge?", which, constitutionally or not, looks like a threat to me. Especially if I was a certain judge... See other posts in this vein that I've written tonight. I won't repeat them, as you are wont to do. So much for all this new posting you're supposed to have done, Tim. Looks like the same old same old to me...
Hettinga doesn't bother with research. He just shoots from the hip. He concentrates on _style_ over substance. Must be his liberal arts training.
May doesn't bother with style, much less Latin. :-). Must be his physical science training. See, Tim? Both yours and mine are ad homin*ae*. Very *good* Tim. I'll boot your D up to a C-... Though, ah bet yew cain't boss yer meskin help fer shit with a command of ro-mance language like the one yew have... Take heart, however, you've still got me beat. At least you *have* Mexican help. I mean, I've got all the education, and you've got all the money, right? But, that's okay. Because, when the revolution comes... ;-). Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: <http://www.fc98.ai/>
participants (2)
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Robert Hettinga -
Tim May