Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
Forwarded message:
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:02:52 +0000 From: "Frank O'Dwyer" <fod@brd.ie> Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
Under an "anarcho-whatever" people are left to their own devices.
And *that* is the primary failure of the entire theory. It's strongest point is sufficient to kill it. No, actualy, it's strongest point demands that it be killed. Very weak argument epistomologicaly, with little more to offer than didactic charms. The implication is that individuals are making societal policies with no checks and balances (failure 1). In effect, the only way an individual will be restrained is by some sort of natural community action (never mind that people don't voluntarily act that way, failure 2). There is no clear mechanism to arbitrate disagreements other than the above mechanism pretty much eschewing any sort of standard of behaviour which further fosters non-compliant behaviour (failure 3). There is no clear mechanism that protects property or civil rights since the very arbitration mechanism changes (and by implication the standards of ethics/morality it's held to) on a case by case basis mediated by the whim of chance on the compatibility of any two individuals personal views (failure 4). The arbitrary use of violence is at no point addressed (failure 5). One of the primary arguments for anarcho- based systems is to address corruption and unfair competition. Yet at no point does it sufficiently address the guidelines as to what those are let alone limits on their solutions (failure 6). So what we are left with is a system whereby people mediate their actions based on the compatibility of their personal philosophies. As I've said before, anarcho- based systems make the same phsychological mistake that every system other than a democracy makes; if it works for one person the answer should be acceptable to another. The very fact that the contrary to this is one of the reasons behind anarcho- support doesn't seem to impinge upon the concioussness. Anarchy is contradictory at the axiomatic level. Another way to see it is: Let people do what they want and they'll naturaly conform to what I want. There is this same axiomatic problem with Hayek's economics and social theories. ____________________________________________________________________ Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want the right answers. Scully (X-Files) The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Choate wrote:
From: "Frank O'Dwyer" <fod@brd.ie> Under an "anarcho-whatever" people are left to their own devices.
[...]
The implication is that individuals are making societal policies with no checks and balances (failure 1).
You are missing the point completely -- there is no reason to suppose that people, left to their own devices, would do anything other than what people left to their own devices have already done, which is to put in place all the present systems of law and government. The problem for both your point of view and that of the "anarcho-whatevers" is that there is no need to speculate about what an anarchy would look like, we already have one. It's just that it doesn't resemble what either of you thinks an anarchy should be. [...] Cheers, Frank O'Dwyer.
At 08:36 AM 11/13/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
So what we are left with is a system whereby people mediate their actions based on the compatibility of their personal philosophies.
Standard interoperation of different protocols. We do it all the time.
As I've said before, anarcho- based systems make the same phsychological mistake that every system other than a democracy makes; if it works for one person the answer should be acceptable to another. The very fact that the contrary to this is one of the reasons behind anarcho- support doesn't seem to impinge upon the concioussness. Anarchy is contradictory at the axiomatic level.
Another way to see it is: Let people do what they want and they'll naturaly conform to what I want.
Who cares what they do as long as they leave me alone.
There is this same axiomatic problem with Hayek's economics and social theories.
He was not an anarchist. If voluntary interaction doesn't work as a social system then we're all in big trouble because persons (you?) who love to command others will have a hard time doing so as everyone becomes rich, mobile, and technologically powerful. If you have figured out a way to push around rich, mobile, and technologically powerful people you're a smarter man than I am. I'm sure the Feds could use your unique insights. BTW we live in a representative republic not a democracy and the theory was that it was to be a representative republic of strictly limited powers. Our representatives have forgotten. Technology and market institutions are teaching them different. DCF
participants (3)
-
Duncan Frissell
-
Frank O'Dwyer
-
Jim Choate