I think that in order to cut down on the amount of bickering of the problems that we have with Clipper, it would be best to sum up a bit. 1) Most of us are concerned not with our own privacy if other forms of encryption are not banned. Many people on this list use PGP, and almost all of the rest know damned well that they could if they thought that they had to keep something secret. (not plugging PGP, per se, but using it as an example because of its relatively large usage among 'punks) In other words, our problems tend to lie in the fact that the people of the United States are as a rule, well, not too concerned about the privacy of their own e-mail, and don't see this as a step towards what is in the book 1984. 2) Collectively, we seem to agree that letting the Government into our lives in such a way as Clipper provides is not necessarily all that evil, but if we give in a little, they will try to take it all. Am I right? (trying to center the discussion) Anthony Ortenzi ao27@andrew.cmu.edu