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Possible power sources: batteries (but they need to be changed) solar power (Australia leads the world in solar power technology, and I know people who know people). Near Field Interaction and EMF pickups (stick 'em near high-frequency power transmission lines). Something that convert heat to electrical energy

If you are hiding boxes on telco poles, an obvious source of power presents itself. :-)

I like the EMF idea! Ideologically and technically interesting... Is it practical? Heat to electricity? hmm...

haha... Well, telephone lines are not a good source of power, because if you draw too much current, you will get caught very easily when the customer starts having problems and complains. I like the EMF idea tho! It would probably work fairly well, and would be undetectable unless they actually went up to check it out. In most areas, power is carried by high voltage lines (several thousand volts) and then they have a transformer every block or so to convert it down to 120v (or 240v or whatever). But those high voltage lines do produce a large magnetic field. If you strung wires parallel to them, you could get a pretty sizeable amount of power out of it (enough to run a transmitter at least). Heat to electricity: possible but not practical. Thermocouples can be expensive and don't produce too much power. You'd need to place it by something constantly warm, especially at night. Solar panels with rechargeable batteries would probably work best. That way, the box could be located in a tall tree or somewhere away from other obvious power sources, or in other less conspicuous locations.

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I have no idea how this could be done across interstate or international distances, but I'm sure people might have ideas. Bounce signals off satellites (are those big shiny things from the 50's still about?); send stuff encrypted via the internet, etc etc.

Someone suggested general use of IR laser links, but someone else mentioned that it would be a bitch to operate a decentralized network of IR links. Well, lasers and microwave are probably best suited for mid-range connections betweens clusters of boxes.

(Ham radio tinkers with microwave and laser communication experience should probably comment here... )

Since the FCC frowns on encrypted amateur radio, I doubt we could openly use the ham nets or satellites...but how about bit fiddling with slow-scan TV? :-) The list has generated many good ideas on tunneling naughty data in otherwise innocent exchanges...

Well, for international, we might be able to pirate a few unused frequencies on satellites, altho this might piss off some big name guys just enuff to get the cops after us. There's the possibility of reflecting radio waves off the moon, but of course this would not work all the time. Infrared: IR works well for short distances, and can not be intercepted easily, but can scattered by rain and fog. (Polarized light might help filter noise somewhat tho.) Furthermore, it has to be direct line of sight, and can't be situated where something might move in the path of the beam. Perhaps someone living on a hill could put up a big aluminum reflector, and people could focus beams of light onto it. As for hiding messages in other signals, there's always the possibility of using ultrasound on a voice frequency...(if the frequency is high enuff to make it feasible)

How many people are interested in this idea? Is it time for a radiopunk task force? Does one already exist? :-)

Yep, I think so... I like the idea.

Haha! That's exactly how I got hyped about the Julieboard -- rummaging in the backlog of the voluminous-but-valuable cpunk posts...

:-) Yeah, they are useful. I got on this list only a couple of months ago, so I am sure I have missed a lot.

My question: Exactly how cheap can we make these things? Mass produced boards, a bag of appropriate components, and a few dozen cpunks working in parallel could work wonders.

This is what I thought. If they are made so that they are self-powering, and tuned via crystals, there is no reason why we couldn't have them mass-produced wherever the hell they are cheapest to manufacture, as part of a big world-wide single order. My friend over here suggested we <we being anyone vaguely interested in a free and unbreakable net> get in touch with the ham radio set, plus the bbs scene. The more the merrier, I say. The advantage of crystals, or at least a tunable set, is that we can then tune them to whetever local frequency is appropriate...

What about surface mount components? Harder to assemble, and fewer people have the skills, but the resulting box would be very small and more easily concealed.

Well, the smaller the better, I think. Ideally they'd be match box or cigarette packet sized, or smaller. But I have no idea how big the julieboard is....

If you are hiding boxes on telco poles, an obvious source of power presents itself. :-)

Phone lines are underground, here. Power lines aren't, though :-)

I like the EMF idea! Ideologically and technically interesting... Is it practical? Heat to electricity? hmm...

The EMF isea IS practical. Apprently they have things in the train stations which induce a hum in a loop in a hearing aid so blind people can navigate the platforms. This is in the undergroun stations in central melbourne. I know nothing about EMF, but my freind does, and he think it's practicable. I don't know about the heat-to-power idea, and neither does he, he's just heard of it.

Someone suggested general use of IR laser links, but someone else mentioned that it would be a bitch to operate a decentralized network of IR links. Well, lasers and microwave are probably best suited for mid-range connections betweens clusters of boxes.

This is what I thought. I thought of using IR lasers for the net-to-Internet link. What sort of traffic can an IR laser carry, and how cheap are they? Is this sort of stuff easily done?

(Ham radio tinkers with microwave and laser communication experience should probably comment here... )

Since the FCC frowns on encrypted amateur radio, I doubt we could openly use the ham nets or satellites...but how about bit fiddling with slow-scan TV? :-) The list has generated many good ideas on tunneling naughty data in otherwise innocent exchanges...

Well, the idea behind this is that even if the authorities DID frown on the whole thing, there is nothing they can do about it. there is no centralised switching mechanism, just lots of cheap nodes scattered (and hidden) all over the place. The concept of ARPAnet as an uninterruptible net was what set me off on this track. Even if they could find the nodes, we just put more up. they could jam the links, but if we make them so that we can remotely change the frequncy, or use spread-spectrum tech, then what can they do? The radio direction finding bunch in the government here has been shut down due to cost-cutting <heh heh> so there is bugger all that could be done to stop it, in this country at least. If we make the whole thing into suburban cells, and run each cell on a different frequency, then it wuld be impossible to jam the network.

How many people are interested in this idea? Is it time for a radiopunk task force? Does one already exist? :-)

Well, there is one over here, so i'll co-ordinate it if people are interested. People can mail me directly, and in a couple of weeks I'll have my own UUCP site so I can set up a maling list if the traffic gets too big. I think this is a very good idea. Sure, we can encrypt our data, but we are still transmitting it over =someone else's net= So, let's build our own! Dwayne.