Re: "Freedom Knights" are closet censors
What is "censoring other people's censorship?" Say I argue in favor of the CDA. Would you censor me then? Why not? Isn't this censoring others censorship? I wonder why the so-called "Freedom Knights" are so insecure in their beliefs that they will not tolerate a dissenting voice on their mailing list. (Let's forget for the moment that my point in subscribing was to disrupt it. That's not the point, is it? "More speech, more speech!") -Declan Founder, Boycott Freedom Knights society, Washington, DC chapter On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Dave Hayes wrote:
The so-called "Freedom Knights" have censored me from their mailing list. Dave Hayes refuses to let me subscribe and read and contribute to the discussions there. Why? Simply because he doesn't like what I have to say. I might criticize him. Truly, censorship says more about the censor than the censored.
Notice that I now have you arguing -my- side of the argument. Are you so easily controlled? Have you asked yourself why you are that way?
John Gilmore, on the other hand, has been much more tolerant. He allows anyone to subscribe to cypherpunks and only kicked one person off after months of ranting and off-topic drivel.
An ineffective move with symbolic complications that affect no one but him. Why do you support this?
And I wonder why the Freedom Knights want to censor certain newsgroups. As in their FAQ, where they condemn speech they don't like on the alt.cancel and alt.nocem newsgroups and advise operators not to carry such groups.
Ah, you finally got the newsgroups right. Good.
I censor other people's censorship. That is what I do. Call me a censor if you will, but if you were truly in support of free speech you would understand. Since you don't, your cry of wolf demonstrates the depth of your consideration of the subject matter.
I think it's time to lift the veil from this public Net-menace!
Knock ya-self out.
Founder, Boycott Freedom Knights society, Washington, DC chapter
You -do- realize, of course, that you have to organize the people and create a large group of opposers to my cause.
That is your destiny. Carry it out. ------ Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org Freedom Knight of Usenet - http://www.jetcafe.org/~dave/usenet
Nasrudin arrived at an all-comers horse race mounted on the slowest of oxen. Everyone laughed, an ox cannot run. "But I have seen it, when it was only a calf, running faster than a horse.", said Nasrudin. "So why should it not run faster, now that it is larger?"
On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Declan McCullagh wrote:
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 07:04:35 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh <declan@well.com> Reply-To: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org To: Dave Hayes <dave@kachina.jetcafe.org> Cc: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org, cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: "Freedom Knights" are closet censors
What is "censoring other people's censorship?" Say I argue in favor of the CDA. Would you censor me then? Why not? Isn't this censoring others censorship?
I wonder why the so-called "Freedom Knights" are so insecure in their beliefs that they will not tolerate a dissenting voice on their mailing list. (Let's forget for the moment that my point in subscribing was to disrupt it. That's not the point, is it? "More speech, more speech!")
-Declan Founder, Boycott Freedom Knights society, Washington, DC chapter
On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Dave Hayes wrote:
The so-called "Freedom Knights" have censored me from their mailing list. Dave Hayes refuses to let me subscribe and read and contribute to the discussions there. Why? Simply because he doesn't like what I have to say. I might criticize him. Truly, censorship says more about the censor than the censored.
No dude, like Dave said, you have to know who to invite to the Party, since you are responsible for the conduct of all of your guests.
Notice that I now have you arguing -my- side of the argument. Are you so easily controlled? Have you asked yourself why you are that way?
John Gilmore, on the other hand, has been much more tolerant. He allows anyone to subscribe to cypherpunks and only kicked one person off after months of ranting and off-topic drivel.
But John Gilmore and his EFF are the epitome of a corrupt special interest group, and he will now be forever remembered as one who "pulls-plugs."
An ineffective move with symbolic complications that affect no one but him. Why do you support this?
And I wonder why the Freedom Knights want to censor certain newsgroups. As in their FAQ, where they condemn speech they don't like on the alt.cancel and alt.nocem newsgroups and advise operators not to carry such groups.
Ah, you finally got the newsgroups right. Good.
alt.cancel and alt.nocem are both censorous newsgroups that should be quashed.
I censor other people's censorship. That is what I do. Call me a censor if you will, but if you were truly in support of free speech you would understand. Since you don't, your cry of wolf demonstrates the depth of your consideration of the subject matter.
I think it's time to lift the veil from this public Net-menace!
Knock ya-self out.
Founder, Boycott Freedom Knights society, Washington, DC chapter
You -do- realize, of course, that you have to organize the people and create a large group of opposers to my cause.
That is your destiny. Carry it out. ------ Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org Freedom Knight of Usenet - http://www.jetcafe.org/~dave/usenet
Nasrudin arrived at an all-comers horse race mounted on the slowest of oxen. Everyone laughed, an ox cannot run. "But I have seen it, when it was only a calf, running faster than a horse.", said Nasrudin. "So why should it not run faster, now that it is larger?"
Let's stay on topic here -- John Gilmore is a censorous asshole for pulling Vulis's plug. The topic has nothing to do with the Freedom-Knights. -a
Declan McCullagh wrote:
What is "censoring other people's censorship?" Say I argue in favor of the CDA. Would you censor me then? Why not? Isn't this censoring others censorship?
I wonder why the so-called "Freedom Knights" are so insecure in their beliefs that they will not tolerate a dissenting voice on their mailing list. (Let's forget for the moment that my point in subscribing was to disrupt it. That's not the point, is it? "More speech, more speech!")
Declan, why won't you let me on the so-called fight-censorship list? Just asking. -rich
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Declan McCullagh -
Rich Graves