David Mandl argues that putting out a document illustrating why Clipper is a catastrophe "is a very bad idea and not the purpose of the list". I disagree for several reasons. First, the purpose of the list is whatever we decide it is. While the genesis of the document shouldn't be broadcast in real time over the list, the final product would certainly benefit from the folks on here giving it as thorough a going-over as they have time and energy for. Second, the DC Cypherpunks meeting held simultaneously with the Northern CA and other sessions dealt with appropriate and effective ways to bring political pressure against Clipper/Digital Telephony. Hey, you live here, you think like you live here :-). To offset the market pressure ("suitable incentivization") the Clinton Administration is bringing to bear we need to use a variety of tools and, continuing Dark Unicorn's Sun Tzu theme, attack the government position at the corners. Unless and until someone puts out a competing product or add-on, all we have are guerrilla tactics. Handing out information in disk form at trade shows *was* brought up at the DC meeting and, while I disagree slightly with Jim Sewell on exactly how non-inflammatory the language used should be, ththis tactic is usable, variable, and potentially very effective. Third, many Cypherpunks subscribers have been interviewed for radio and print pieces on Clipper/Digital Telephony. This project is no different -- we just ask the questions as well as give the answers :-). Fourth, I couldn't imagine the piece would be represented as an official position of "the Cypherpunks". You have to be a coherent organization to have a position and, while we all tend to agree that Clipper is a bad idea, a unified whole we ain't. Fifth, don't read it if you don't want to. I'll make sure it's labeled clearly so you can delete it straight away if you so desire. "The Cypherpunks" will never be a lobbying group to supplant EFF or CPSR, there's no reason small bands can't form temporary teams to accomplish a common goal. In this case, the goal is to further spread the word that Clipper and Digital Telephony should be seen as the privacy killer it is. And dealt with accordingly. Curt