[This post cc cypherpunks@algebra.com & cypherpunks@cyberpass.net to aid propogation which seems to be struggling.] In trying to figure out which lists were working, I noticed that there are now many more people on coderpunks and cryptography than there are on cypherpunks... take a look at these figures: 713 cryptography@c2.net 713 coderpunks@toad.com 245 cypherpunks@algebra.com + cypherpunks@cyberpass.net - duplicates Seems to me many of the `cypherpunks' have become `careerpunks' and are now more interested in trading crypto tips, trade gossip, than in cypherpunks projects. They went through the phase of buying kewl domain names (take a look down the subscriber lists), tinkering with remailers, and have now graduated to making money from crypto consulting, and lost interest in the issues where they don't add to the bottom line. Oh yeah, I know you might argue that selling crypto is a good thing, and it is, but the two are not completely focused in the same direction: corporate, or consulting interests want to sell crypto, to export crypto, cypherpunks want tools to increase the power of the individual. An example of this different focus is perhaps the SAFE bill. Lots of corporates seem keen on SAFE, because it increases their market place. Individuals right to use crypto in the US can go to hell. Before anyone leaps down my throat, the above is a gross generalisation, and is intended as food for thought only. I know plenty of you who are involved in the crypto business and who haven't lost your ideals, and think SAFE is a bad deal, etc. However, I think the trend exists. Adam (btw coderpunks won't give you it's subscriber list unless you're subscribed) -- Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`
At 2:16 PM -0800 5/12/97, Adam Back wrote:
[This post cc cypherpunks@algebra.com & cypherpunks@cyberpass.net to aid propogation which seems to be struggling.]
In trying to figure out which lists were working, I noticed that there are now many more people on coderpunks and cryptography than there are on cypherpunks... take a look at these figures:
713 cryptography@c2.net 713 coderpunks@toad.com 245 cypherpunks@algebra.com + cypherpunks@cyberpass.net - duplicates
Seems to me many of the `cypherpunks' have become `careerpunks' and are now more interested in trading crypto tips, trade gossip, than in cypherpunks projects.
Interesting. I just made some similar remarks in my "Snickering at Compromisers" article, which just went out as this one was coming in. I know of a company most of whose employers met each other through the Cypherpunks list. Yet the leader of this company announced that his was a real company (which it surely is), "not just a Cypherpunks hobby." This shows the disdain with which the Cypherpunks list is held by many former members, who in fact had little or no interest in cryptography, and why it is so important, prior to joining our list. Oh well, they got educated, they formed companies, and now they are bemused that the Cypherpunks list still exists. To be fair to them, though, they are generally promoting the cause of liberty and strong cryptography, and few if any former Cypherpunks are actively supporting GAK or "key recovery" or other fascist policies. As for the "success" of the other two list mentioned by Adam, fine, good for them. Both are "moderated" or at least semi-moderated lists. I won't post to either of them, not wanting either Perry Metzger or Futplex to have control over my articles. (And, interestingly, neither of them seems to post to Cypherpunks, so I suppose it all works out.) The instability of the Cypherpunks address, with the obvious change from toad.com to various other addresses (algebra.com, cyberpass.net, and even ssz), obviously did not help. Increasing list subscribership has never really been a priority to most of us, anyway. But, fact is, Adam is right that many former list members are now much more interested in "moderated" discussions of "moderate" topics, all in "moderation." To each their own. --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
participants (2)
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Adam Back -
Tim May