From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" you can't have it both ways. either anyone is free to decide what a cypherpunk is, and no one has the right to argue with it. or, cypherpunks are something in particular, and someone has the authority to determine that. ............................................ So are you saying that "SHTBD!!!!"? :>) As you note, it is an informal system which operates on the list. As you also note, an "intelligent and mischievous adversary" can effectively create problems. But you failed to note that intelligent and technically savvy members will find effective ways to deal with it. That is what is important about an 'anarchic' list like this - that the challenge of maintaining rational discourse is met by the application of active intelligence, rather than all the rigmarole you mentioned. And this is what makes it interesting, I think. Any person's ideas or concepts or contributions can be tested or challenged by the more knowledgeable on the list, if they are so moved (or not, if they are not so moved). The organizing subject around which discussions revolve is crypto, within the social context. Because of this, the relationship to the main subject is difficult to maintain. (And isn't this list like a microcosm, at times, of the larger social picture?) It is the unexpurgated exchanges of thought & expression, which regulate the list. It reminds me of a book about life: You Learn, or You Die. <g> .. Blanc