At 1:03 AM 11/5/95, Simon Spero wrote:

On Sat, 4 Nov 1995, Timothy C. May wrote:

...

Therefore, there are few ways that citizenship can be "checked." Period. A foreigner who wishes to "prove" his non-U.S. status could, of course, show his green card. But this is different from proving citizenship.

And here we have the rub. People with permanent residency (i.e. green cards) are fully entitled to access to strong crypto. Most foreign students are on J-1 visas, which do not grant permanent residency.

Irrelevant. J-1 persons are still accorded the basic rights of citizens, save for a few things like voting, holding certain offices, and perhaps jury duty (not sure about this, as my recent jury summons was apparently based on my Calif. Driver's License and required no form of identification whatsoever). My basic point was that "J-1," "permanent resident," "citizen," "undocumented," and "completely and totally without proper papers" are, for the purposes being discussed here, all essentially identical. Any sysadmin who expects to have papers proving "citizenship" or any other status will have a tough time. Saying "People with permanent residency (i.e. green cards) are fully entitled to access to strong crypto." and--presumably--implying that J-1 visa holders are _not_ entitled to use strong crypto within the U.S. (or, for that matter, in their own countries, but this is another issue), is misleading. The laws about "showing a foreign national" certain items do not differentiate, so far as I have seen, between various kinds of visas. In any case, sysadmins generally do not ask for any kind of ID or proof of citizenship, morality, residency, etc. (On my many computer accounts over the years, as but one example, _never_ have I have been asked for credentials of any kind. Never. Not even a driver's license, let alone a passport or birth certificate or whatever. My current Internet Service Providers, netcom.com and got.net, are blithely uncaring about the fact that I am technically a citizen of Ruritania, and am not in the U.S. legally.) --Tim May Views here are not the views of my Internet Service Provider or Government. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."