Bob Hettinga wrote that Marvin Minsky wrote:

...

There's always a plausible reason that can be used to override whatever privacy policies and safeguards are designed into such a system.

If the reasons really are plausible, then those overrides should be added to the system design.

There is a curious belief implicit in this statement. Nobody wants a backdoor in their own privacy. This means that the overrides will have to be mandated by law. Thus, what Minsky is arguing against is the right of people to protect their own privacy.

Perhaps, instead, we should try to design tracking systems that include public review mechanisms -- so that whenever anyone (e.g., your employer) accesses your record against the privacy policy, they'll be subject to legal sanctions and damages.

It is possible that Minsky is unaware of how ineffective these sorts of laws are. Today we have many laws regarding financial secrecy and the like. However, there are people who are able to get this sort of information fairly routinely. These people tend not to be poor. They tend to be close to employers. The tend not to advertise what they do. Not to mention the fact that legal systems and governments can flip into bad modes where they exploit the authority with which they have been entrusted. It is somewhat naive to claim that any government is not prone to this and that it hasn't happened repeatedly throughout all of human history.

Ed Fredkin once asked a number of people how they would feel about a new device with which you could select almost anyone in the world, and make the device produce a loud noise near them. They all objected angrily. Then Ed said, "It already exists. It's called the telephone."

This is a cute line and I'm sure it was a hit with the crowd, but telephones are a major problem. We can tell how much illegal wiretapping is going on by the which authorities by how loudly they scream when people - people who have not been tried or convicted of any crime! - start encrypting their conversations. Incidentally, does anybody know what percentage of the research funding Marvin Minsky has used in his career was directly or indirectly related to the defense establishment? The interesting thing about the privacy "debate" is that there is an exceptionally high correlation between opposition to privacy and the consumption of public money. Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm Subject: Minsky skeptical of privacy To: cypherpunks@algebra.com 16A5942B6EED349ECF4594C784DFD177 [Cantsin Protocol No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