Re: Socio-Economic Cults (Re: Cypherpunk Cults)
At 09:18 AM 8/27/97 +0100, Adam Back wrote:
It's a distributed system, it's more resilient to abuse than governments.
If one person becomes too much of a nuisance (real trigger happy for ultra minor infractions -- swearing at them, daring to look at them when they're in a bad bood) relatives, friends, or concerned citizens will correct (fill trigger happy person with lead).
That's how the wild west worked anyway... outlaws didn't last that long.
So you're relying on other peoples sense of fairness ... should easily work out better than governments.
Ever heard of mob violence? Read up on the Salem witch trials when a bunch of people got together and murdered a bunch of thier own on the evidence of the rantings of a few girls. Don't forget hitler, who managed to swing an entire country against a ever growing list of minorities. Granted, this was from within government, but the principle is the same. Anarchy is good, as long as an us versus them mentality doesn't occur. That would require a far more homogenious population than we have now. If everyone had the same skin color, hair color, eye color, bone structure, and color of socks, war would eventually break out over who lived on which side of the river.
On Wed, Aug 27, 1997 at 05:32:15PM -0400, William H. Geiger III wrote: [...]
Both of your examples only go to prove the point of anarchy is better then governments.
Yes, in the same sense that you can say that unicorns are better than horses. But horses are real, and unicorns are imaginary. Unicorns have all the advantage -- we don't have to deal with unicorn shit. Governments are real, and anarchy is a utopian ideal, just like communism. [...]
In Germany, as in all mass murders, was the act of the *Governemnt*.
No matter how you add the numbers up there has been many many more deaths caused by governments than there ever has or will be by criminal.
A meaningless assertion. Like saying "all people who die breathed air, therefore air is the cause of death". You say "guns don't murder people, people murder people", therefore it follows "Governments don't murder people, people murder people." Governments are instruments of people, not independent intelligent agents. You create this bogeyman, the *GOVERNMENT*, and blame everything on it. Now, you have identified the source of all evil. You imagine a fantasy hero, Anarchy, with its invincible magic sword, Cryptography, that can defeat the bogeyman. With this comforting theology you swagger down the cryptoanarchy dreamscape, your head filled with the rightness of your cause, and your righteous piece on your hip, ready to dispense sudden death to anyone who breaks your rules. A comforting dream, to be sure. But a dream. Government is a reality. All empirical evidence points to government being an inevitable part of the human condition. Anarchy is a fantasy. -- Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited", kent@songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199708271949.PAA23255@www.video-collage.com>, on 08/27/97 at 03:49 PM, Sean Roach <roach_s@alph.swosu.edu> said:
At 09:18 AM 8/27/97 +0100, Adam Back wrote:
It's a distributed system, it's more resilient to abuse than governments.
If one person becomes too much of a nuisance (real trigger happy for ultra minor infractions -- swearing at them, daring to look at them when they're in a bad bood) relatives, friends, or concerned citizens will correct (fill trigger happy person with lead).
That's how the wild west worked anyway... outlaws didn't last that long.
So you're relying on other peoples sense of fairness ... should easily work out better than governments.
Ever heard of mob violence? Read up on the Salem witch trials when a bunch of people got together and murdered a bunch of thier own on the evidence of the rantings of a few girls.
Don't forget hitler, who managed to swing an entire country against a ever growing list of minorities. Granted, this was from within government, but the principle is the same.
Anarchy is good, as long as an us versus them mentality doesn't occur. That would require a far more homogenious population than we have now. If everyone had the same skin color, hair color, eye color, bone structure, and color of socks, war would eventually break out over who lived on which side of the river.
Both of your examples only go to prove the point of anarchy is better then governments. In the Salem witch trial they were government trials (which were based on a political power struggle in Salem at the time) not lynch mobs. In Germany, as in all mass murders, was the act of the *Governemnt*. No matter how you add the numbers up there has been many many more deaths caused by governments than there ever has or will be by criminal. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNASd2Y9Co1n+aLhhAQFw5gQAo8N9bEITAmgMjff7cbr1eIvl3BQZXq2K lVxEroZVJvpmPGF79LdmVGTHGoDwOvRaVC8SGVpGQuK5uDr1ZzcgbaUB0cq6SJ4H 4bb243CeZ+onxHSkMGK/DMflMoJ4z/gBL2+mcR/LmP04Vkf/D+CuMMyDnNUk60vl tNLUnVhEPd8= =m58o -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (3)
-
Kent Crispin -
Sean Roach -
William H. Geiger III