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From: Alex Strasheim <cp@proust.suba.com> Subject: Re: SEVERE undercapacity, we need more remailer servers FAST Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 13:18:24 -0500 (CDT)

The remailer net won't stand up to challenges of any strength because no one gets anything for running a remailer. It doesn't matter if the challenges are strong enough to win, or if they ultimately have any merit. If you don't get anything for winning and you'll get burned if you lose, the expected value of the game is negative no matter how unlikely losing is.

As long as the remailer is run a 'grins & giggles' affair you are right. The moment they are run as a business enterprise then the game changes. Several of the Austin Cypherpunks and myself have set up a remailer here in Austin (kourier.ssz.com) using MixMaster. The intent is that once we get out of testing the software and other mods we are in the middle of we will have a commercialy viable service. I am currently discussing with a couple of local lawyers possible strategies we can employ if CoS or others start legal motions. The idea that we are exploring is a defence by offence. One aspect is 'work in progress' protection of both our development mods as well as our customers work. I also hope to build part of the defence on the fact that to bring the remailer down denies access to the public key-server which is integrated into the remailer as a value-added service. (NOTE: don't waste your time trying to get to kourier over the next few weeks. A more public announcement is in the works) To me the biggest problem with the crypto work right now is that not enough professionals are involved. If more remailers and such were initiated as a business there would be legal avenues to explore. Also, in this vain is the apparent lack of support for commercial ventures by developers of such apps as MixMaster (whose license explicity prohibits commercial use). And for the record, yes, we expect to charge real $$$ for access. Our current plan is $10/month for each account. Money orders prefered. We have at this point pondered e-cash methods but it doesn't seem popular enough at this juncture.

If you want the remailer system to stand up you have to make the expected value positive. The expected value of bookmaking is positive, even though it's illegal to take sports bets in most states. As a consequence it's not hard to find someone to take a bet. Individual bookies may come and go, but the system will always be there. If the expected value of running a remailer was positive, the remailer system would thrive even if it was illegal to run one.

To make the expected value positive, you have to (a) make it profitable to run a remailer, and (b) set up a protocol that gives someone who runs one a fighting chance of not getting busted. (a) is easy enough in theory, but I don't know how you could do (b), at least not if you wanted to let people do public things with the remailers (like post to usenet).

I agree with (a) completely. The way to make a remailer profitable is to charge for access. As to (b), step one is get a lawyer on board from the get go. One aspect of (b) is that it should be no more illegal for me to allow my users to post to usenet anonymously via my guest account than to do it via a remailer. In fact, one could argue that if anonymous remailers are truly illegal then so are 'guest' or other demo accounts on systems that don't get personal info (and verified at that) prior to accessing any system services. This means that systems such as l0pht.com or ssz.com are illegal to operate. Jim Choate \\///// "Don't have a cow, man" | | / (.) (.) ===========================oOO==(_)==OOo========================== Tivoli an IBM company CyberTects: SSZ Customer Support Engineer SOHO Consulting/VR/Robotics 9442 Capitol of Texas Highway North 1647 Rutland Suite 500 #244 Austin, TX 78759 Austin, TX 78758 Email: jchoate@tivoli.com Email: ravage@ssz.com Phone: (512) 436-8893 Phone: (512) 259-2994 Fax: (512) 345-2784 Fax: n/a WWW: www.tivoli.com WWW: www.ssz.com Modem: n/a Modem: (512) 836-7374 Pager: n/a Pager: n/a Cellular: n/a Cellular: n/a ===================================================================