Re: FCC & Internet phones
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- t byfield wrote: [..]
doubt the situation for bureaucratic rule-mongering would be much different. The WP article said that has ACTA has "asked the [FCC] to stop this kind of communications and study how to regulate it," probably--and not surprisingly --in that order.
I noticed they complainted about IPhone "giving away our product for free" or something like that. Bad implications. Imagine MS going after the FreeDOS people, or Novel or AT&T or whoever owns Unix now going after Linux or the FSF/GNU... [..]
Q: Is it practically possible to find netphone traffic on a generic network at any level above the source and target addresses?
Good question. - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBMUI89CoZzwIn1bdtAQFXBAF/RSoygg/szTsrtI+Ds512YDV3KswRP43r 4HfgV+PHex3JqnhOWNbWuNga05EsFDJp =EcBe -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Mutant Rob wrote: | > Q: Is it practically possible to find netphone traffic on a | > generic network at any level above the source and target addresses? | | Good question. Presumably, the signal has a number of charictaristics. Some of them have a central switchboard, where preople go to set up calls. Most presumably use a mix of a UDP data connection and tcp for control functions. They all consist of high volume, long duration connections (or data flows in the case of UDP.) Many probably use a standardized destination port. They might use the urgent pointer to force data up the stack quickly. In short, yes the data streams can be easily found, if one can tap and grep a T3 in real time. Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume
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From: Adam Shostack <adam@lighthouse.homeport.org> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 00:07:20 -0500 (EST)
Presumably, the signal has a number of charictaristics. Some of them have a central switchboard, where preople go to set up calls.
Hum, I would set-up the system to `dial direct'. Maybe I could give you this one, for systems that allow random-chat modes.
Most presumably use a mix of a UDP data connection and tcp for control functions.
OK, everything after the IP header is encrypted. I don't even know which protocol is in use.
They all consist of high volume, long duration connections (or data flows in the case of UDP.) Many probably use a standardized destination port.
OK, everything after the IP header is encrypted. I don't know which port is in use.
They might use the urgent pointer to force data up the stack quickly.
OK, everything after the IP header is encrypted. I don't know which protocol options are in use.
In short, yes the data streams can be easily found, if one can tap and grep a T3 in real time.
In short, assuming IPSEC, the data stream cannot be easily found. Slightly different assumptions led to a radically different outcome. Regards, Loren - -- Loren J. Rittle (rittle@comm.mot.com) PGP KeyIDs: 1024/B98B3249 2048/ADCE34A5 Systems Technology Research (IL02/2240) FP1024:6810D8AB3029874DD7065BC52067EAFD Motorola, Inc. FP2048:FDC0292446937F2A240BC07D42763672 (708) 576-7794 Call for verification of fingerprints. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMUTVK/8de8m5izJJAQGOQQP/R0iXXj4hSytLhifxkxWjkCHItIpQAZvZ J73NdpVIK3EOO8dEXl4jWimh//mTmW5Zt0kIyZtRW4Sn5UlE6FHkG7fnNfgSZbzR 8fu0XOM3ScRKioNhdp0e5ECnB6WrqaSRgTH0K9e+oheAN2zVob/bTb0Gh+gSe930 Znf9388LkZ4= =JMrb -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Loren James Rittle wrote: | >Most | >presumably use a mix of a UDP data connection and tcp for control | >functions. | | OK, everything after the IP header is encrypted. I don't even know | which protocol is in use. Are you willing to play Mallet? Drop IP packets, and look for duplicates. Those are TCP. (IPSEC might handle this, but I bet there will be broken implementations that save time by resending.) | >They all consist of high volume, long duration connections | >(or data flows in the case of UDP.) Many probably use a standardized | >destination port. | | OK, everything after the IP header is encrypted. I don't know | which port is in use. Which doesn't change the nature of the data, which is: Alice sends long (3-60 second) heavy flows to Bob. Alice's flow stops, Bobs picks up. repeat. | In short, assuming IPSEC, the data stream cannot be easily found. | Slightly different assumptions led to a radically different outcome. First, assume a can opener. :) Actually, I'll bet you I can pick out your encrypted data for the common case, which will continue to be a modem, which can't handle heavy back traffic flows for the sake of hiding who is speaking. Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume
The real complaint of the telephone companies seems to be not that the calls are free, but that the 'whatevers' are not subject to the same tariff regulation that they are. I'm sure it's because they want to be able to lower their fees to the same level to compete. Quit sure. Simon --- i gotta say this you're acting blameless you're making bucks like you're fucking shameless i'm coming hard it won't be painless coding styles of the rich and brainless
participants (4)
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Adam Shostack -
Loren James Rittle -
Mutant Rob -
Simon Spero