does anybody know what the email address is for the good samaritans? tia ps, how come mail i send to jpiunix.com is getting bounced, are they down?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:10:45 -0800, anonymous-remailer@shell.portal.com wrote:
ps, how come mail i send to jpiunix.com is getting bounced, are they down?
Regrettably, it appears jpunix.com is down permanently. I can't fault John at all, and want to thank him for running a robust remailer for as long as he was able. I captured this earlier today: ============================================================================= From: perry@jpunix.com (John A. Perry) Newsgroups: alt.privacy.anon-server,alt.anonymous Subject: Re: Jpunix "unknown"? Date: 4 Jan 1995 06:55:22 -0600 Organization: J. P. and Associates In article <doumakesD1v7EA.C63@netcom.com>, Don Doumakes <doumakes@netcom.com> wrote:
I've gotten several pieces of mail returned from jpunix. Is it down permanently, or is this just a temporary problem?
Here is the test of a message I sent to remailer-operators: The anonymous remailer at jpunix.com is going to shut down permanently shortly after I send this message. I spent my holidays fighting spams, running out of disk space because of spams and people sending HUGE binaries, and running out of swap space. I have come to the ultimate conclusion that the Internet is not mature or developed enough for remailers. The intended purpose has been completely ignored while abuse is growing almost geometrically on a daily basis. I have concluded that running a remailer on the Internet is like giving a bunch of terrorists a nuclear bomb and then telling them "But only use it for good!". There just doesn't seem to be much point in thrashing my disks and computer to aid somebody in net abuse. I hardly ever (never) see any use of the remailer for the purposes it was intended. BTW as I type this, mailgate.mail.aol.com is hammering my port 25 every 30 seconds. The contents of the spam being passed thru my system essentially says: THIS IS A MAIL BOMB!! **** BOOM *** ============================================================================= Alan Westrope <awestrop@nyx.cs.du.edu> __________/|-, <adwestro@ouray.denver.colorado.edu> (_) \|-' 2.6.2 public key: finger / servers PGP 0xB8359639: D6 89 74 03 77 C8 2D 43 7C CA 6D 57 29 25 69 23 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBLwsa7VRRFMq4NZY5AQEC7QP/SsfagBISP7k+0en0MeJpTPD56BNv0xGX Fh80FuzJ/8Ya7Z4ykz8C1zTtXUaKJeIMgGbQkwybYveOGY5eZWgkc62r+FjmW6fh JY2WhI7e0w+NpfjLBktr+deBvy3b9ElXfbiObfftZMZX/yVke7KX7p7hhdK8t7/g vVj+TqEMhGU= =GnaX -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
The problem with a _free_ remailer is obvious -- like many other Internet resources, it can suffer from the tragedy of the commons. Even a negligible fee would do much to prevent gross remailer abuse. It may not be feasible to make remailers in to an industry, but this isn't the point -- it will keep the utterly lame from using it for pranks and their ilk.
From: db@Tadpole.COM (Doug Barnes) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:38:21 -0600 (CST) Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com The problem with a _free_ remailer is obvious -- like many other Internet resources, it can suffer from the tragedy of the commons. Even a negligible fee would do much to prevent gross remailer abuse. It may not be feasible to make remailers in to an industry, but this isn't the point -- it will keep the utterly lame from using it for pranks and their ilk. Use First Virtual. The "information" that you sell is a one-time email alias that points to your remailer. After an hour, that email alias gets disabled. This dynamic setup is easy to do with smail, just a matter of dropping a file into a directory. And who cares if they pay you or not, because if they don't pay (choose to purchase the information), eventually FV will cancel their account. Send mail to info@fv.com. This gets you an automated response. Their contract says that they won't enforce payment on services, so if you offer a service, you're completely at risk, but again, there's not much real risk here... -- -russ <nelson@crynwr.com> http://www.crynwr.com/crynwr/nelson.html Crynwr Software | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | ask4 PGP key 11 Grant St. | +1 315 268 1925 (9201 FAX) | What is thee doing about it? Potsdam, NY 13676 | What part of "Congress shall make no law" eludes Congress?
The problem with a _free_ remailer is obvious -- like many other Internet resources, it can suffer from the tragedy of the commons.
Even a negligible fee would do much to prevent gross remailer abuse. It may not be feasible to make remailers in to an industry, but this isn't the point -- it will keep the utterly lame from using it for pranks and their ilk.
Use First Virtual. The "information" that you sell is a one-time email alias that points to your remailer. After an hour, that email alias gets disabled. This dynamic setup is easy to do with smail, just a matter of dropping a file into a directory.
Heh. An anonymous remailer paid for by credit card... there'd have to be an additional level of indirection for it to work, which would make the methods for tracking those who don't pay quite problematic. Also, most remailer abuse tends to be of the hit-and-run variety, which is still nicely enabled by FV. Anonymous remailers pretty much require anonymous digital cash, although this could be built on top of some other electronic payment system with somewhat less payment lag and reversability than FV. Doug
From: db@Tadpole.COM (Doug Barnes) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 22:11:11 -0600 (CST) Heh. An anonymous remailer paid for by credit card... there'd have to be an additional level of indirection for it to work, which would make the methods for tracking those who don't pay quite problematic. Why wouldn't it work? I plan on doing this, and I'll be selling lots of things besides a remailer, including lots of email traffic. So there won't be any effective way to find out who paid for access to my remailer. Sure, I'll know who used it, but I'm not going to keep that information. (Yes, yes, FV says that I have to keep records of who bought what, but I'll label all my information with a random number, that simply says that X bought information worth Y, not *what* information.) And if you don't trust a remailer operator, then you won't use it. -- -russ <nelson@crynwr.com> http://www.crynwr.com/crynwr/nelson.html Crynwr Software | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | ask4 PGP key 11 Grant St. | +1 315 268 1925 (9201 FAX) | What is thee doing about it? Potsdam, NY 13676 | What part of "Congress shall make no law" eludes Congress?
On Thu, 5 Jan 1995, Russell Nelson wrote:
From: db@Tadpole.COM (Doug Barnes) Heh. An anonymous remailer paid for by credit card... there'd have to be an additional level of indirection for it to work, which would make the methods for tracking those who don't pay quite problematic.
Why wouldn't it work? I plan on doing this, and I'll be selling lots of things besides a remailer, including lots of email traffic. So there won't be any effective way to find out who paid for access to my remailer.
Another thought: why couldn't you sell a book of "stamps" -- Magic Money tokens -- and get paid for them using First Virtual? This would get around two problems: the lack of anonymity using First Virtual, and the fairly high 29-cent-per-transaction fee. You could sell a book of twenty remailer stamps for a dollar, or something. I'd buy. And it wouldn't make it too easy for people to use remailers without paying. FV will still take an account away from someone who denies legitimate charges too many times. I guess there is the problem of Chaum's patents (and RSA's). Is there anyplace where neither set of patents is valid, or where they'd be practically unenforceable? Joe
Anonymous remailers pretty much require anonymous digital cash, although this could be built on top of some other electronic payment system with somewhat less payment lag and reversability than FV.
Perhaps if the people at DigiCash had seen fit to give me the beta client and server software I could attempt to implement such a beast. Unfortunately, I don't meet their critera. -jon ( --------[ Jonathan D. Cooper ]--------[ entropy@intnet.net ]-------- ) ( PGP 2.6.2 keyprint: 31 50 8F 82 B9 79 ED C4 5B 12 A0 35 E0 9B C0 01 ) ( home page: http://taz.hyperreal.com/~entropy/ ]---[ Key-ID: 4082CCB5 )
The problem with a _free_ remailer is obvious -- like many other Internet resources, it can suffer from the tragedy of the commons.
See the remailer at c2.org as an example - quite nice, and has a pay-for-more than n bandwidth agreement. Works fine for a few small chatty messages, won't work worth a damn for spamming. -jon ( --------[ Jonathan D. Cooper ]--------[ entropy@intnet.net ]-------- ) ( PGP 2.6.2 keyprint: 31 50 8F 82 B9 79 ED C4 5B 12 A0 35 E0 9B C0 01 ) ( home page: http://taz.hyperreal.com/~entropy/ ]---[ Key-ID: 4082CCB5 )
See the remailer at c2.org as an example - quite nice, and has a pay-for-more than n bandwidth agreement. Works fine for a few small chatty messages, won't work worth a damn for spamming.
I like both this idea and this particular service. I didn't mean to imply that nobody was charging/reducing spam.
participants (6)
-
adwestro＠ouray.Denver.Colorado.EDU -
anonymous-remailer＠shell.portal.com -
db＠Tadpole.COM -
Joe Thomas -
Jonathan Cooper -
nelson＠crynwr.com