Rich Graves wrote:

On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, Timothy C. May wrote:

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At 11:45 PM -0700 4/6/97, Rich Graves wrote:

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I think there is a censorship issue in the way the government is using the issue. I think AP is protected speech, just as the Unabomber Manifesto is. I don't want to see such speech chilled. But I think you've got the instrumentality wrong.

I don't see any evidence either Bell's AP or Kacynski's Unabomber manifestos are being chilled.

Tim's eyesight is getting worse in his old age.

There's plenty of evidence right here in this thread. See especially the "Feds Reading This List" branch and Lucky's "First they came for..." comments. Just because you don't feel chilled doesn't mean others don't. Whether this paranoia is justified is, of course, another issue:

Paranoia is always justified. We live in a predatorial universe, where you have to eat to survive.

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I've written elsewhere why I think Bell was raided.

Tim sounded like an IRS aplogetist in that post. I'm beginning to think that the same people who got the dirt on Gilmore and forced him to bend over for C2Net's censors also have some pictures of Tim tucked away somewhere. Contrary to Tim's flimsy reasoning, the IRS did not confine themselves to seeking a search warrant based on the evidence they had regarding possible SSN violations, or even a stretching of logic on that evidence. Instead, they used a blatant misinterpretation of Bell's AP system and developed a train of conspiracy which was even more theoretical than Bell's writing, with absolutely no reference to any hard evidence of Bell having engaged in any illegal speech, despite having read hundreds of Bell's posts. It seems that Tim May despises those on the cypherpunks list who develop conspiracy theories in regard to those who are attempting to censor and ridicule list members, but has no shortage of support for large, powerful government organizations who wish to develop conspiracy theories, using obvious misrepresentations of a persons ideas to subject them to search and seizure on a fishing expedition.

what Inspector Gordon says about AP being in and of itself evidence of an anti-government conspiracy really bothers me. That's the kind of thing that does create a chilling effect.

Exactly as it is meant to do. At least Rich Graves, snow, and others still have the ability to recognize suppression of speech when they see it. For all of Tim's blustering about Bell's other sins being the source of his problems, Tim could easily find himself in the same position as Jim, if a large government agency should ever decide to use Tim's words to add to his woes in a civil or criminal case. How many on the cypherpunks list are co-conspirators with Jim Bell in his evil plan to murder government officials? Those who replied to his posts? All who received them? I would like to see one of the legal eagles on the list write up an application for a search warrant on the cypherpunks list servers and various individuals (written from the perspective of a government agent/prosecutor), using the same stretch of logic used in Bell's case. TruthMonger