--- begin forwarded text X-Authentication-Warning: c3po.kc-inc.net: majordomo set sender to owner-e-carm@lists.kc-inc.net using -f Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 19:52:59 -0200 (EDT) From: Ed Gerck <egerck@laser.cps.softex.br> To: Robert Hettinga <rah@shipwright.com> cc: E-CARM <e-carm@c3po.kc-inc.net>, DIGSIG@LISTSERV.TEMPLE.EDU Subject: Re: [E-CARM] Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-e-carm@c3po.kc-inc.net Precedence: bulk On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote:

Don't blame me, blame the remailer? <Bwahahahahah!>

Bob: If the e-mail below was forwarded through you, it means that you thought it is useful to these lists and that you also found some nexus in the argument line used by the, huh... author. However, neither you nor the huh... author seem to hold a steady line of argument, as of course, you are indeed to be blamed without recourse for this piece of tasteless non-sense being further reproduced on the Net. My intent with my original posting (available at http://www.mcg.org.br/antinomy.txt, as proof) was NOT to criticize the Clinton administration on an initiative which is in accord with current practices worldwide -- but to show that there is a better and privacy-protecting solution when identification is modelled using coherence functions. Further, my intent was to show that biometrics is perishable and not self-secure, which reasons alone would seem to rule it out in the case. THUS, MY SOLE REASON FOR THIS REJOINDER IS TO MAKE THAT CLEAR. However, the Net is an amplifier -- it just provides raw power. The question is how it is used. You and I have duly performed our duties as estimulated emission sources, albeit with different filter functions. Cheers, Ed Gerck.

Cheers, Bob Hettinga

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Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:26:24 +0100 From: Anonymous <nobody@replay.com> Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above. It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software. Please report problems or inappropriate use to the remailer administrator at <abuse@replay.com>. Subject: Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Sender: owner-cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Precedence: first-class Reply-To: Anonymous <nobody@replay.com> X-Loop: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net

Aaww horseplops[1]! In fact, great, festering, mid-path, sole-sticking horseplops! This argument is vacuous. As every small child knows, authentication != identification and, in most cases, only authentication is required and, the absence of identification implies privacy.

Am I a UK citizen, a good credit risk, a club member in good standing, etc. An appropriate mechanism, a smartcard, can easily authenticate both itself (challenge-response) and the bearer via a biometric and/or PIN without revealing the identity of the holder.

However, who holds out hope that such a sensible thing would ever be adopted by the powers-that-be.

Nematode

[1] The plop is a useful measure of human cogitation. As every small child knows, much good thinking is done whilst enthroned on the commode, since the evacuation of feces from the anus promotes the introduction of fresh material into the brain through the ears. After years of experimentation and careful measurement, we (the ISO labs) have observed a strong correlation between ideas and fecal bombardment of the receptive commodal pool and audible emissions therefrom. For example, it required only 0.3 plops to decide to vote for Clinton while a similar decision in favor of John Major required almost 5 plops. For the purposes of comparison, 10^6 homosapiens plop = 1 horseplop. While the relationship between megaplops, flops and MIPS is not yet clear, our ISO plop standard should be emitted soon.

-----BEGIN PLOP SIGNATURE----- Version: PLOP for Personal Privacy Charset: nocommode

NSACIAMOUSEaw6mkJhRWnHTzAQFMlgP/ZMM+14qUzy+w6AGSlOtAyrE2BBDSV3Hm Tlc0Ct7wyXV2CPEMzieCm4ZS0rzigkgTZTMCmEqYexEJkdSAU60WMHm3cr28UJIG ekx7N7aWKQ34u05dRrE+IVR329y0ia/2F8B7edZ7CqoydOJAnQxNIB1qohlCGlGT RYgOGVSpO04= =MF1K -----END PLOP SIGNATURE-----

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----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' =========================================================================== Help with Majordomo commands plus list archives and information is available through the E-CARM web page at http://www.kc-inc.net/e-carm/. Sponsored by The Knowledge Connection. ===========================================================================

______________________________________________________________________ Dr.rer.nat. E. Gerck egerck@novaware.cps.softex.br http://novaware.cps.softex.br =========================================================================== Help with Majordomo commands plus list archives and information is available through the E-CARM web page at http://www.kc-inc.net/e-carm/. Sponsored by The Knowledge Connection. =========================================================================== --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'