Best Cypherpunk long gun
At 11:11 PM -0700 12/22/97, Mix wrote:
What is the best long gun for a Cypherpunk?
(This is probably some sort of troll, but I'll answer it anyway.) For what purpose? For what range? How much money do you want to spend? I can tell you that for close quarters defense, against Home Invaders (of either the Vietnames gang sort or the Washington gang sort), I count on an Olympic Arms OA-96 pistol, in .223. Though technically a pistol, because of the 6.5-inch barrel and pistol grip, it fires 30 rounds of high-speed .223 Remington, able to rip through ballistic vests like butter. The small size makes it manouverable in tight quarters. It has a laser on it, and I also use the HoloSight described below on it. For slightly greater ranges, e.g., during daylight, I have a Colt HBAR Match Target rifle (essentially a Colt AR-15, though that was banned during the Recent Statist Action, and so the name had to change, along with a few cosmetic features). This also fires a .223 round, of course, as it is the standard U.S. military rifle. The HBAR is mounted with a Bushnell HoloSight, a zero-magnification holographic reticle system, similar to a "red dot" system (but better). Two-inch groups at a hundred yards are easy to obtain (limited more by the scope than by the rifle). (There are rumors that I bought a genuine Colt AR-15 in 1975 and have not registered it, as required by fascist Kalifornia law. I could tell you if this is true, but then I'd have to shoot you.) I also have a Ruger Mini-14 in .223, though I'm not sure it fills a useful niche. And a Winchester Model 94, a classic cowboy lever action, in .44 Magnum. Again, not necessarily a mainstream gun. For defending the _perimeter_ of my property against Those Who Would Trespass, I count on a Remington Model 700 "varmint" rifle, chambered in .308 (or 7.62 NATO). It's a bolt-action, but the expected use is for long-range (300 meters) use, aka "sniping." The usual high-power scope. This rifle is capable of sub-MOA (minute of angle) groups, meaning less than 1-inch groups at a hundred yards. Were I to recommend one rifle to meet most needs, it would be some variant of the AR-15, from Colt or Bushmaster or Olympic Arms, etc. About $800 for a common variant. No need for a collapsible stock. This will handle social needs from short range, to a few hundred yards (maybe more). There are those who recommend a cheaper SKS or AK-47 variant. I've never owned one, so can't honestly comment. The concensus in rec.guns and misc.survivalism seems to be that the AR shoots better and more accurately, but the AK-47 is more forgiving of bad conditions, dirt, etc. Inasmuch as I don't expect to be in the desert, or even any mud, I'll take the more accurate piece. (The notion that the AR-15/M-16 "jams" is based on 35-year-old early experiences in Viet Nam, using an early design and early ammo. The jamming problems were fixed quickly, by changing the forward assist, changing the ammo a little, and teaching soldiers how to properly clean the weapon.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <v03102807b0c50470580c@[207.167.93.63]>, on 12/22/97 at 11:34 PM, Tim May <tcmay@got.net> said:
There are those who recommend a cheaper SKS or AK-47 variant. I've never owned one, so can't honestly comment. The concensus in rec.guns and misc.survivalism seems to be that the AR shoots better and more accurately, but the AK-47 is more forgiving of bad conditions, dirt, etc. Inasmuch as I don't expect to be in the desert, or even any mud, I'll take the more accurate piece.
Well with my M ...er AR15, yeah AR15, I have sloped it through all kinds of crap in the field with little trouble. While I have used the A2 models I have not done extensive field testing with it. The increase in barrel length seems to be a plus but I have concerns with the change in design of the sight adjustments and how well they hold up under adverse conditions. Myself I have never liked scopes on a field weapon, too much of a hassle better reserved for hunting/snipping. Never had any serious jamming problems with the exception of using blanks. Nasty things, never could get through a clip without a jam. Thank god I never have to use those things anymore, now if only someone could come up with a "clean" tracer round. :) - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNJ9x0o9Co1n+aLhhAQKu0QQAu/024jxawcGV4FWg2vrvF68N/horMFxa xCNxOJYIOOg4ZdBIpcNF6S4+833KsA+51bU3yIFVTBeHRczhbplOrQrBO/4x7IkY qNIeFlkrnHgP5sIsb9zGM6xZW/HO4FYxEjzrOJsaczXTRHAj3FldY6iOofBsKrOV iYvGbh0eASE= =AHfW -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Tim May wrote:
For defending the _perimeter_ of my property against Those Who Would Trespass, I count on a Remington Model 700 "varmint" rifle, chambered in .308 (or 7.62 NATO). It's a bolt-action, but the expected use is for long-range (300 meters) use, aka "sniping." The usual high-power scope. This rifle is capable of sub-MOA (minute of angle) groups, meaning less than 1-inch groups at a hundred yards.
Is there any version of Remington 700 (maybe PSS) that accepts detachable magazines? - Igor.
At 7:32 AM -0700 12/23/97, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
Tim May wrote:
For defending the _perimeter_ of my property against Those Who Would Trespass, I count on a Remington Model 700 "varmint" rifle, chambered in .308 (or 7.62 NATO). It's a bolt-action, but the expected use is for long-range (300 meters) use, aka "sniping." The usual high-power scope. This rifle is capable of sub-MOA (minute of angle) groups, meaning less than 1-inch groups at a hundred yards.
Is there any version of Remington 700 (maybe PSS) that accepts detachable magazines?
Yes, the PSS comes with a 5-shot detachable magazine (or at least one is available for it). And I understand that some gunsmiths can easily adapt the PSS to talke M1A magazines (the M1A being the civilian-legal version of the M-14, a semiauto in .308. of course). The view of most snipers is "Why bother?" If the goal is "one shot, one kill," make that first shot really, really count. Rapid-fire follow-ups shots are inconsistent with the idea of sniping. (If the rapid-fire comes as a freebie, it might be a no-brainer to choose it over bolt-action. But it isn't a freebie, and semiautos cost a lot more to equal the accuracy of a bolt-action. Plaster estimates a semi-auto also takes about 5 times the effort to keep it at high accuracy. As I said earlier, H & K's excellent PSG-1 is a fine semiauto sniping rifle, but it costs $10K, retail. This compares to a Remington PSS for about $800, retail, or a Remington Varmint Synthetic for $700, retail. (Or any number of fine bolt actions from Winchester, Ruger, Sako, Steyr, etc.) Also, extreme long-range sniping is increasingly done with .50 BMGs, or .338 Lapua, or, at the lower end, .300 Winchester Magnums. In all cases, shot recovery is limited more by the shooter reacquiring the sight picture than by cycling the action, so a semi-auto is mostly a waste of resources. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
no wonder TCM is so frustrated all the time. forget chips, forget software, he's really a stymied wannabe gun salesman. I've almost never complained about off topic posts, but this is really beyond the limit of all comprehension.
"Vladimir Z. Nuri" <vznuri@netcom.com> writes:
no wonder TCM is so frustrated all the time. forget chips, forget software, he's really a stymied wannabe gun salesman.
I've almost never complained about off topic posts, but this is really beyond the limit of all comprehension.
I suppose anything crypto-relevant (i.e. on topic for this list) would be beyond the limits of a <*S0V0K*>'s comprehension. I also suppose Sameer Parekh must be very upset that the fascist US gubmint has censored his favorite sex symbol - Joe the Camel. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
At 10:11 PM 12/22/97 -0800, you wrote:
What is the best long gun for a Cypherpunk?
A Solothurn, natch. For those who don't know: A circa 1938 20mm anti-tank rifle; be sure to get the high power telescopic sight. Why screw around? :-) -landon [read _unintended consequences_; as john brunner said: "move in with it"]
landon dyer wrote:
At 10:11 PM 12/22/97 -0800, you wrote:
What is the best long gun for a Cypherpunk?
A Solothurn, natch. For those who don't know: A circa 1938 20mm anti-tank rifle; be sure to get the high power telescopic sight. Why screw around? :-)
I am sure that you read about it in _UC_.
[read _unintended consequences_; as john brunner said: "move in with it"]
Anyone else thinks that Unintended Consequences is a bad fiction? - Igor.
On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Mix wrote:
What is the best long gun for a Cypherpunk?
There are some howitzers that can deliver nuclear artillery shells at 50+ miles. I think their barrels are pretty long. :-) -- Lucky Green <shamrock@cypherpunks.to> PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"
Lucky Green <shamrock@cypherpunks.to> writes:
On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Mix wrote:
What is the best long gun for a Cypherpunk?
There are some howitzers that can deliver nuclear artillery shells at 50+ miles. I think their barrels are pretty long.
During WWI the germans had something called "Big Bertha". It may have been longer. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
On Tue, 23 Dec 1997, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
Lucky Green <shamrock@cypherpunks.to> writes:
On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Mix wrote:
What is the best long gun for a Cypherpunk?
There are some howitzers that can deliver nuclear artillery shells at 50+ miles. I think their barrels are pretty long.
During WWI the germans had something called "Big Bertha". It may have been longer.
Compensating, Her Doktor? ;) http://www.valkyriearms.com/m2.htm BATF approved. Hmmmm ... wonder how fast you can fire this on semi-auto? The auto version had a fairly low rate of fire, as I recall. Actually, a Colt-Sauer in any of the smaller, flatter shooting cartridges will do just fine. One round, one head-shot. -r.w.
At 1:39 PM +0100 12/23/1997, Lucky Green wrote:
On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Mix wrote:
What is the best long gun for a Cypherpunk?
There are some howitzers that can deliver nuclear artillery shells at 50+ miles. I think their barrels are pretty long.
Those looking for shorter range, large payload, weapons with small size and low weight should look into shaped-charge munition projectors. Relatively easy to build and reliable, they can accelerate items to well over 10,000 fps (depending upon explosive used) and pretty accurately deliver multi-kilogram payloads over a 1/2 mile. Good against buildings and hardened targets, like tanks, as at this velocity even more conventional projectiles can breech advanced armour. Major shortcoming is they are use once items and not for close combat ;-) --Steve
participants (10)
-
dlv＠bwalk.dm.com -
ichudov＠Algebra.COM -
landon dyer -
Lucky Green -
Mix -
Rabid Wombat -
Steve Schear -
Tim May -
Vladimir Z. Nuri -
William H. Geiger III