Re: Workers Paradise. /Political rant.
At 7:08 PM 9/14/96, Asgaard wrote:
The problem with the 100% market economy approach is what to do with those who just can't get it together, i.e. who buy beer for the money that should go to health insurance and then fall ill. It's against basic human instincts to just let them stay in agony.
I have no problem with letting them stay in agony (but you all knew this). "Saving for a rainy day," whether saving, investing, getting an education (while others are out partying), preparing, etc., all takes effort and commitment. If those who save and prepare are then told they have to pay high taxes to support those who partied....well, the predictable effect is that many of them will say "I'll just party and let The System take care of me." Thus, the effect of "not letting them stay in agony" is _more_ people in agony. When you tell people that a compassionate society will meet their basic needs, a predictable fraction of them will choose not to work hard and prepare themselves. I say we need to let about 20 million Americans, and a couple of billion in the rest of the world, meet their fate. While I will not _actively_ seek to dispose of them, I will work to make sure they cannot continue to subsidize their lives at my expense. Crypto Anarchy means getting rid of deadwood the old-fashioned way. --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
On Sun, 15 Sep 1996, Timothy C. May wrote:
I have no problem with letting them stay in agony (but you all knew this).
"Saving for a rainy day," whether saving, investing, getting an education (while others are out partying), preparing, etc., all takes effort and commitment. If those who save and prepare are then told they have to pay high taxes to support those who partied....well, the predictable effect is that many of them will say "I'll just party and let The System take care of me." Thus, the effect of "not letting them stay in agony" is _more_ people in agony. When you tell people that a compassionate society will meet their basic needs, a predictable fraction of them will choose not to work hard and prepare themselves.
I say we need to let about 20 million Americans, and a couple of billion in the rest of the world, meet their fate.
While I will not _actively_ seek to dispose of them, I will work to make sure they cannot continue to subsidize their lives at my expense.
As usual, Tim sums it up. Or as Duncan once wrote [not an exact quote] "If aid to the poor hadn't been successful, there wouldn't be so many of them" --Lucky
before everyone else flames tim, I'll toss a couple-three Carter dollars in the pot: 1. where has compassion, which is wrung from an unwilling minority by coercian, ever succeeded in building the economy in *real* numbers without raising taxes disproportionately for more bureaucratic waste? forget the idea that it will build a community --unless you wish to consider the Bitch's "It Takes a Global Village" a community. Statist from the cradle; welcome to "Logan's Run." 2. if there is community "welfare" by the biblical definition, is it: a) socialism, and b) does it cost the community additional taxes? NO, it does not need to be or do either, BUT, it means that everybody independently attempts to succeed and the 'community' takes care of itself --and in the standard sense, the ne'er do wells fall off the path of *their own free choice.* There will always be sickness and calamity, but that is what the community is for. BTW, it still works today; I live in one of 'em. 3. deciding on a personal level where to draw the line is not necessarily socialy irresponsible. we will always have Scrooge, and God-forbid we should lose a few bleeding- heart-with-your-money liberals for the final chestnut roast. Now, I don't intend to be Scrooge, but I'll fight for my rights to cut off at the knees the knee-jerk liberals and government slavemeisters who want to tell me that I, and 2 others are required to support 100 freeloaders. --a .357 mag shell can still be loaded for less than a dime. NEXT? attila In <ae61bb3e00021004ed98@[207.167.93.63]>, on 09/15/96 at 06:47 AM, tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May) said: = .I have no problem with letting them stay in agony (but you all knew = .this). = . that's what we all love about you, tim: your predictability. = ."Saving for a rainy day," whether saving, investing, getting an = .education (while others are out partying), preparing, etc., all = .takes effort and commitment. If those who save and prepare are then = .told they have to pay high taxes to support those who = .partied....well, the predictable effect is that many of them will = .say "I'll just party and let The System take care of me." Thus, the = .effect of "not letting them stay in agony" is _more_ people in = .agony. When you tell people that a compassionate society will meet = .their basic needs, a predictable fraction of them will choose not = .to work hard and prepare themselves. =. fourth generation of the government dole in our ghettos, or is it the fifth? = .I say we need to let about 20 million Americans, and a couple of = .billion in the rest of the world, meet their fate. you're figure is low. = .While I will not _actively_ seek to dispose of them, I will work to = .make sure they cannot continue to subsidize their lives at my = .expense. no, they'll first try to cannibalize us, then fall upon themselves and their demigod leaders. = .Crypto Anarchy means getting rid of deadwood the old-fashioned way. NEXT! = .--Tim May = .We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't = .allowed. = .---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------: = .Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital = .money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital = .pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, = .reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | = .black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't = .even speed bumps on the information superhighway." -- one of the few things we all share: the utter, corrosive contempt for our elected officials.
On Sun, 15 Sep 96 23:43:33 +0000, attila <attila@primenet.com> wrote: Now, I don't intend to be Scrooge, but I'll fight for my rights to cut off at the knees the knee-jerk liberals and government slavemeisters who want to tell me that I, and 2 others are required to support 100 freeloaders. Two others, huh? Lucky you :-)
From somewhere (i.e. I didn't write it and I don't know who did):
I'm tired. Yes, I'm tired. For several years I've been blaming it on middle age, poor blood, lack of vitamins, air pollution, saccharin, obesity, dieting, under-arm odour, yellow wax buildup and another dozen maladies that make you wonder if life is really worth living. But I found out it ain't that. I'm tired because I'm overworked. The population of this country is 3.3 million, 0.5 million are retired, that leaves 2.8 million to do the work. There are 1 million in school, that leaves 1.8 million to do the work. 200,000 are unemployed and 400,000 are employed by the Government, that leaves 1.2 million to do the work. 300,000 are employed by City and Borough Councils, leaving 700,000 to do the work. There are 420,000 people in hospital and 279,998 in prison. That leaves two people to do the work. You and me. And you are sitting on your arse reading this. No wonder I'm bloody tired. -- Paul Foley <mycroft@actrix.gen.nz> --- PGPmail preferred PGP key ID 0x1CA3386D available from keyservers fingerprint = 4A 76 83 D8 99 BC ED 33 C5 02 81 C9 BF 7A 91 E8 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- There is nothing wrong with Southern California that a rise in the ocean level wouldn't cure. -- Ross MacDonald
tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May) writes:
Crypto Anarchy means getting rid of deadwood the old-fashioned way.
Starting with the lying old fart himself. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
participants (5)
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attila -
dlv＠bwalk.dm.com -
Lucky Green -
Paul Foley -
tcmay＠got.net