Quoting a previous message:

Date: 03 Oct 93 14:42:57 EDT From: Sandy <72114.1712@CompuServe.COM> To: <cypherpunks@toad.com> Subject: POISON PILL WIMPS

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT Reply to: ssandfort@attmail.com . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Punksters,

I've just about had it with posts like Matthew Gream's:

. . . attempting to play 'smart-ass' to your investigators is only going to result in more problems for you. Its a non-ideal world, and they definitely have the ability to cause you substantial problems.

. . . I feel it is essential to show them everything that they think is there, and convince them (as they will not be as competent in cryptographic analysis as yourself [at least you hope]) that there is nothing hidden.

Didn't any of you appeasers and apologists read and *understand* HACKER CRACKDOWN? Once you are the focus of an investigation, they are already causing you substantial problems. Cooperation only gives your tormentors more ammunition. You are not going to convince them of anything. You cannot talk your way out of anything. What you can--and will--do is dig yourself in deeper. After that, you will probably try to get off the hook by rolling over--like a bitch in heat--on your friends and associates.

The ONLY thing that works is (a) stonewall, stonewall, stonewall until you get competent legal representation, then (b) do what your lawyer's says. Period.

Consider this your wimp wakeup call.

S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A wise mindvox user said recently on the round-table forum: "If you have nothing to hide and did nothing wrong then you have absolutely nothing to lose by keeping quiet" Having seen many a hacker (and non-hacker) get into trouble over the years, I'd have to say that Sandy's assesment is correct in the majority of cases. as for "rolling over--like a bitch in heat-- on your friends and associates" this too I have seen all too often and many times to little benefit to the rat who is talking. Dragging other people down with you serves little purpose IMHO and is a particularly dispicable and all too common trend among hackers of recent years. oh and sandy, I did read the Hacker Crackdown :-) Let me quote a second recent post:

Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1993 15:51:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Ingle <MIKEINGLE@delphi.com> Subject: Excessive Crap & Flamage To: cypherpunks@toad.com

This list is becoming completely unreadable! First the POISON PILL and now PGP IN FIDO just seem to go on and on. And how many before that? (Troglodyte mind-rapists, etc) I've got about a meg of utter crap in my email file, most of it unread or skimmed. If people want to fight, why not do it in private mail, back up your positions, and then post your conclusions if you manage to come up with any. Please don't CC all your flames to the list. And please don't echo a three-page post to add one line of comments to it.

What happened to all the idealism? Total privacy, cryptophones, digital cash, zero-knowledge cooperation, bringing down governments and setting the world free? That's what the list is for, not mindless flaming.

Aargggh! MikeIngle@delphi.com

although no one is asking me, I'll admit that perhaps this message itself is guilty of the above. And I am on the verge of unsubscribing after a couple of months being on the list because the daily time requirement to keep on top of the messages is exceeding an hour. Perhaps splintering the list into the following 2 main areas is an option: 1) A fairly lean-bandwidth list containing technical facts, news articles, bibliographic info, short source code, etc. 2) A more fluffy-content list containing general comments, opinions, flames, etc. Subscription to list 2 would probably necessitate subscription to list 1. But for those who want the meat without the potatoes, subscription to list 1 is all that would be required. I recall this coming up about a month and a half ago, more calls for keeping the messages "pertinent" to the cypherpunk agenda. The problem has only grown worse. Lex