Re: True democracy the electronic way
At 3:03 AM 2/15/96, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
1. this is an extremely interesting problem in my opinion. the ideal form of government has not been achieved in many millenia. could it be solved given the full power of the information age, i.e. ... if anyone knows of a mailing list to discuss this concept of trying to apply technology to government, I would be most interested. the closest I can see
You might try the "Cypherwonks" mailing list that L. Detweiler set up a couple of years ago to explore the very ideas you are supporting here. You might find you have a lot in common with him. --Klaus!, a tentacle Boycott espionage-enabled software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
1. this is an extremely interesting problem in my opinion. the ideal form of government has not been achieved in many millenia. could it be solved given the full power of the information age, i.e. ... if anyone knows of a mailing list to discuss this concept of trying to apply technology to government, I would be most interested. the closest I can see
You might try the "Cypherwonks" mailing list that L. Detweiler set up a couple of years ago to explore the very ideas you are supporting here. You might find you have a lot in common with him.
interesting you should mention that. because of my interests I've heard various legends that this list (long ago in a galaxy far away) was sabotaged by piles of trash sent through anonymous remailers, and the moderator quit instead of put up with it (not provided the tools to keep out mail from unsubscribers). perhaps a little data point about forms of information technology (and the absence of it) that *doesn't* necessarily lead to an improved form of human interaction. apparently there is some pretty harsh antagonism towards "electronic democracy" among the people best suited to experiment with it, i.e. the pioneers of cyberspace. but hell, alienation and nihilism is so much more convenient and versatile than bubbly enthusiasm. it's a one-size-fits-all philosophy. "screw everyone!!!" "it'll never work!!!" "government == tyranny!!" something tells me that "electronic democracy" is going to survive the death of an early mailing list dedicated to its discussion, however. but thanks very much for the pointer, Klaus! I'm always impressed with the helpful spirit of everyone on this list. (speaking of which I'd be interested in talking to anyone with spare resources to start mailing lists.) --Vlad
"Vladimir Z. Nuri" writes:
You might try the "Cypherwonks" mailing list that L. Detweiler set up a couple of years ago to explore the very ideas you are supporting here. You might find you have a lot in common with him.
interesting you should mention that. because of my interests I've heard various legends that this list (long ago in a galaxy far away) was sabotaged by piles of trash sent through anonymous remailers,
For those not in the know, I will point out for the record that Vladimir Z. Nuri is actually L. Detweiler and that you are watching a form of strange masked dance in which everyone pretends that they don't know who the other person is. We now return you to the surreal dialog already in progress. Perry
PM:
For those not in the know, I will point out for the record that Vladimir Z. Nuri is actually L. Detweiler and that you are watching a form of strange masked dance in which everyone pretends that they don't know who the other person is. We now return you to the surreal dialog already in progress.
hmmmmm, sounds like a ridiculous conspiracy theory to me, concocted mrely to further inflame TCM warefare by inciting both him and those critical of him. (methinks you have been staring at crypto code for sockets and slaving over a hot monitor a bit too long.) note: I have absolutely no interest of playing the puerile cyberspatial identity games the cypherpunks have come to be famous for. but thanks for a great laugh (at you, not with you). (but, shall I remind you, all these conspiracy theories you raise are WHOLLY IRRELEVANT to the cypherpunks list.) say PM, you are into capitalism and the free market economy as transcendent and sacred and all that-- what would you charge to not post to this list for say several months? a little vacation for someone clearly overworked and fatigued? I'd be willing to take up a collection. you might be surprised how much people donate ... there even maybe one or two "wealthy contributors" who really up the ante. don't take it personally-- I really am concerned for your welfare and serenity of mind, something that seems to endlessly elude you as much as the perfectly relevant cypherpunk post.. p.s. a little note to everyone here who doesn't "get it"-- a guerilla measures his effectiveness by the presence of *any* response.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, On Fri, 16 Feb 1996, L. Det^H^H^H^H^H^HVladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
p.s. a little note to everyone here who doesn't "get it"-- a guerilla measures his effectiveness by the presence of *any* response.
Only stupid guerillas who have forgotten why they got in the biz. S a n d y P.S. Here we have a perfect example of a win-win-win situation. Larry gives himself an attaboy for getting my response ("*any* response"). I get to poke fun at his rationalization. The list gets another data point on this fruitcake. P.P.S. Well, almost perfect. My friend, Perry, for whom I have a great deal of respect will not appreciate the noise. On this point, I have agreed to disagree with Perry. I would still gladly take 100 more Perrygrams in exchange for yet another Detweiler rant. Perry makes a great deal of sense. LD is a loon (oh yeah, and a great guerilla warrior...yeah right). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
participants (4)
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Perry E. Metzger -
Sandy Sandfort -
tcmay＠got.net -
Vladimir Z. Nuri