Re your suggestion of a cypherpunk daughterboard to substitute for Clipper in "secure" phones etc.: I have a sneaky suspicion that AT&T won't be quite so cooperative. They constantly do things in such a way as to make it darn hard to do anything with their products except exactly what they intended to do. It might be worth a try though... OTOH anything that creates more demand for AT&T phones is a not-good thing in my view... we need an entirely competing product, and preferably cheaper than an AT&T clipperphone + daughterboard, for obvious competitive reasons. There are plenty of telephone manufacturers in the world. Some are relatively small shops in Asia which make European knock-offs for the Asian operating companies. I know of another one in Portugal which at least ten years ago was favorable to doing mildly custom stuff. If nyone here is seriously interested in competing cryptophones, I'd be willing to find an appropriate telephone set manufacturer who makes quality phones and is willing to put in a daughterboard socket or other useful mods. -gg@well.sf.ca.us