-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I had come across a reference to this in Tim's CYPHERNOMICON. Was this whole project a giant scam? Has this been objectively demonstrated, or just suspected/believed? Having read the new URL this group has placed onto the Web (don't have it handy or I'd post it), it seems that the project is still alive and well, and "trying to pay off old debts." Could someone bring me up to speed on this group? On the surface, it would seem that there is a lot in common with their objectives and the general Cypherpunks "philosophy". (quotes because I understand the diversity of thought in this group.) ======================================================================= Johnathan Corgan "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" jcorgan@netcom.com -Isaac Asimov PGP Public Key: http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html Or send email to: pgp-public-keys@pgp.ai.mit.edu Subj: GET jcorgan ======================================================================= -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBLv0KHk1Diok8GKihAQGPhAQAuXzxcDNpKv6fqW3P0FAQCeRkskuO1uAk /pbyQjbPWagHjEiwY845zWPNoRZVZyTEN5eWjYLJYCsTDZ+ymNSDTI8+It5tENyv Ee2CZIFadoGgo6loLLH3TqYn6S/BogwEVGAzFbbHH2echlNCOJdmxbCCfxR+r8hA TayG8nQQHzQ= =Yu4/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Johnathan Corgan wrote:
I had come across a reference to this in Tim's CYPHERNOMICON.
Was this whole project a giant scam? Has this been objectively demonstrated, or just suspected/believed? ... Could someone bring me up to speed on this group? On the surface, it would seem that there is a lot in common with their objectives and the general Cypherpunks "philosophy". (quotes because I understand the diversity of thought in this group.)
I won't say it's a scam, but a lot of people think it is/was. I thought it had died some months back, when all posts (of which there had previously been many) suddnly stopped. The idea of soliciting "contributions" to fund some kind of seagoing barge, sinkable with a single torpedo (anonymous delivered, easily enough), is crazy. If changes are going to occur, it won't be by collecting dribs and drabs of small change from suckers who think they'll someday be "living off the sea, consulting via satellite dish." (That's not a direct quote, just my gleaning of the Oceania philosophy.) They're out to lunch, or scam artists, or hopeless dreamers, or all of the above. Gone to Roatan. --Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. Cypherpunks list: majordomo@toad.com with body message of only: subscribe cypherpunks. FAQ available at ftp.netcom.com in pub/tcmay
Mats Bergstrom writes:
Timothy C. May wrote:
They're out to lunch, or scam artists, or hopeless dreamers, or all of the above. Gone to Roatan.
Charging $250 for an Oceania passport supports the scam theory.
Then again, it may just belong in the "highly speculative" category. Much like the rich market now existing in Cuban property -- tied, of course, to a particular group that promises to overthrow Castro, then declare the property yours once the dictatorship is in place. Of course, for the price of Oceania, you could put together a nice "offshore" communications satellite. nathan
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I used to be on the Oceania mailing list. From what I can tell, these guys are serious. I must admit, I was taken with the idea. Trade a few pairs of Levis for a Soviet warship and live in international waters. This design would have taken one or two torpedoes. About the time I left, they were thinking of floating concrete domes in the Sargasso sea. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAgUBLuNB3cyi36CIyUXVAQFzwwP+LcpOehNy72i42VHgTSGANebrKAI7naG5 eq1y3kAtzL2pG5vjNJnSA7ANWUZ9sfT6t4ymM0Rgsrpil+jvE1WNBDNoc3/8Gqgm yMh79QS1N/ceb0X4btbslUSdVUjUumdQzcKaAqOTTfqIbxGvoxsATVzIghDRBPDF f9vb5EQUk8Q= =KSch -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Johnathan Corgan writes
Was this whole project a giant scam? Has this been objectively demonstrated, or just suspected/believed?
Some of the participants were less than truthfull, to me and to others. Was it a scam? In some cases they no doubt believed that it was all for the greater good. In other cases -- if some people made money out of it, then it was a scam. If it was not a scam, then still they pursued their goal by evil means. I doubt that anyone made money out of it. Either way they are untrustworthy people. Myself, I would rather be stabbed in front than behind. The man who loudly says he is your friend, and loudly points to common enemies, is seldom your friend. The Oceania project will not succeed, though I wish it well. There is an alternative project that might succeed, perhaps is already succeeding: Many governments now recognize that they are incapable of governing in a fashion that permits a modern technological society. So they are leasing -- not selling, but long term leases -- regions to be governed by more competent third parties. Singapore is a major beneficiary of this. They find government by Singapore particularly comforting because Singapore has demonstrated expertise in minimizing the dangerous infection of freedom that accompanies capitalism. But I am happy to report the disease seems difficult to contain. Those free trade zones and special economic zones that are most successful, are those that are most thoroughly free. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we James A. Donald are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state. jamesd@netcom.comorg
participants (7)
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jamesd＠netcom.com -
Johnathan Corgan -
joshua geller -
Mats Bergstrom -
Nathan Loofbourrow -
SINCLAIR DOUGLAS N -
tcmay＠netcom.com