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James A. Donald wrote: Crazy no. Their objective is to create a surveillance state, where all actions are known and recorded by the state, in order to facilitate detailed state control over every aspect of our lives. Our agenda is the opposite. There is no commonality of purpose, hence no possibility of cooperation.

And Perry Metzger replied: I disagree. Most NSA types are probably stock government employees who want to get their job done with the least muss and fuss. Some of them actually have pride in their work. Very few of them are likely actively evil.

Need I point out that pride in one's work is not necessarily exclusive of evil? Rarely does anyone actually think of themselves as evil -- and those few who do are usually just harmless nuts. The most evil and destructive people throughout history have always thought of themselves as good people, doing good work. As the saying goes, the most effective con men are those who believe their own cons. Is there anyone here who seriously doubts that if the international intelligence community successfully implements any significant part of their openly-expressed agenda, it will constitute the most gigantic threat to human freedom that mankind has ever faced? If that isn't evil, I don't know what is. By the way, I don't necessarily agree that the main objective of the surveillance state is to facilitate detailed control of our lives. I think the objective of the international intelligence community, like virtually every political organization, is simply to accumulate more money and power to themselves. Unfortunately, their method of doing this is particularly destructive and dangerous to human rights. --- mkj -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMHaNRF11Wd4tm8clAQHNfgP/Y4N5JNpr0IwZY2UQFDjw5ootMUdwXLFq oW9MirShBBNn6xLyJBNBG7Po8hd3cUrmzqC6qWMiyWAROXPOTjUfJYiI2ziPIX4P xL3hos2+EwSWuveEKndh6kRgQ8MeknOfhnpJxKosbvZ1nLxYXUI+CmnNNTnN042y o/uQlHpoHtU= =UMP0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----