What both of these arguments (moreso the first) fail to mention is an individual's investment in time and possibly a lot of money in various memberships, with expec- tations that they will have the opportunity to develop and express

their utmost capability. When I have a problem with some of the dirty

representatives in Washington DC do on my behalf, people say "like the U.S. or leave it", etc., as though my father, his father, his father, etc. clear back to the 1600's in the colonies here, wasted their blood on the battlefields defending these assholes who like to say "you can just leave if you don't like it".

The squashing of people's dreams begins at birth with selfish and shortsighted parents, and since that and other oppressions permeates our brains at every level, it's a wonder that some people are as accomplished and expressive as they are. This topic as it's been handled so far by most of the subscribers is prima facie evidence that most of the people in the industrialized countries are just good

At 09:11 PM 11/6/96 -0800, Dale Thorn wrote: themselves to things my little suck-up

fascists.

Actually, I was comparing some people on the list, who were saying someone could always start thier own list, with those who advocate telling someone to start a new country as opposed to making their vote count. This is a free country where we, fortunately, don't have to hang around, and, this is a free list, where we don't have to post or remain subscribers. I was saying that telling someone to start their own list was equivalent to telling them to dig in on an uninhabited island. I was never advocating either action. If you read the previous posts, you can see the one I responded to and see what I mean. I know that this may not be possible as you probably tossed them, but ask me if you would like, I have that post somewhere in backup.