[SCARE]: "If you only knew what we know..."
At 5:53 PM 5/23/96, jim bell wrote:
Well, he must have learned it all in the last few months, because his bill was the closest thing to DOA that we've seen in a long time, exceeded only by GAK 3. I'd like to hear from him what the source of the text of the Leahy bill on encryption really was: Who pressured him to make it so bad?
"If you only knew what we know..." ("...you wouldn't support encryption, you wouldn't push for privacy legislation, you would order all citizen-units to have tatooed ID numbers on their arms...") Though I normally avoid "Wired," I did pick up the latest issue to skim through. A couple of good things, actually, including a nice summary of the state of crypto laws, etc. (I don't recall the author, as I didn't buy the issue.) A great discussion of the Deepest and Darket Secret in Washington, the special "If you only knew what we know..." briefing given to legislators, staffers, etc. to convince them of the Evils of Cryptography. Paraphrasing the "Wired" item, "No person who has ever received "The Briefing" has ever again argued forcefully for the rights of citizens to use strong cryptography." I surmise that either Sen. Burns has not yet been given The Briefing, or he is for some reason more resistant than most other burrowcrats to the scare tactics used in The Briefing. I sure would like to know what's in this briefing. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Paraphrasing the "Wired" item, "No person who has ever received "The Briefing" has ever again argued forcefully for the rights of citizens to use strong cryptography."
It's my understanding that this statement is now false. I believe that Matt Blaze recently received "The Briefing" and he is still on our side. (I personally think it was a mistake on their part to give him said Briefing, as they should have realized he couldn't be converted. Now that someone has "withstood the Briefing" it gives them less credibility.) -- Sameer Parekh Voice: 510-601-9777x3 Community ConneXion, Inc. FAX: 510-601-9734 The Internet Privacy Provider Dialin: 510-658-6376 http://www.c2.net/ (or login as "guest") sameer@c2.net
Sameer Parekh writes:
It's my understanding that this statement is now false. I believe that Matt Blaze recently received "The Briefing" and he is still on our side.
Don't suppose Matt could do a little executive summary of "The Briefing" and post it to the list, could he? -- Mike Duvos $ PGP 2.6 Public Key available $ mpd@netcom.com $ via Finger. $
On Thu, 23 May 1996, Mike Duvos wrote:
Sameer Parekh writes:
It's my understanding that this statement is now false. I believe that Matt Blaze recently received "The Briefing" and he is still on our side.
Don't suppose Matt could do a little executive summary of "The Briefing" and post it to the list, could he?
Probably not unless he wanted to do time. I suspect some anonymous person might put bamboo shoots under his fingernails and post the results of the interrogation however.
-- Mike Duvos $ PGP 2.6 Public Key available $ mpd@netcom.com $ via Finger. $
--- My preferred and soon to be permanent e-mail address:unicorn@schloss.li "In fact, had Bancroft not existed, potestas scientiae in usu est Franklin might have had to invent him." in nihilum nil posse reverti 00B9289C28DC0E55 E16D5378B81E1C96 - Finger for Current Key Information Opp. Counsel: For all your expert testimony needs: jimbell@pacifier.com
On Fri, 24 May 1996, Black Unicorn wrote:
On Thu, 23 May 1996, Mike Duvos wrote:
believe that Matt Blaze recently received "The Briefing" and he is still on our side. Don't suppose Matt could do a little executive summary of "The Briefing" and post it to the list, could he? Probably not unless he wanted to do time. I suspect some anonymous person might put bamboo shoots under his fingernails and post the results of the interrogation however.
Isn't this exactly what the anon remailers were designed for? Petro, Christopher C. petro@suba.com <prefered for any non-list stuff> snow@crash.suba.com
On Fri, 24 May 1996, snow wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 1996, Black Unicorn wrote:
On Thu, 23 May 1996, Mike Duvos wrote:
believe that Matt Blaze recently received "The Briefing" and he is still on our side. Don't suppose Matt could do a little executive summary of "The Briefing" and post it to the list, could he? Probably not unless he wanted to do time. I suspect some anonymous person might put bamboo shoots under his fingernails and post the results of the interrogation however.
Isn't this exactly what the anon remailers were designed for?
That was the point, yes.
Petro, Christopher C. petro@suba.com <prefered for any non-list stuff> snow@crash.suba.com
--- My preferred and soon to be permanent e-mail address:unicorn@schloss.li "In fact, had Bancroft not existed, potestas scientiae in usu est Franklin might have had to invent him." in nihilum nil posse reverti 00B9289C28DC0E55 E16D5378B81E1C96 - Finger for Current Key Information Opp. Counsel: For all your expert testimony needs: jimbell@pacifier.com
On Fri, 24 May 1996, Black Unicorn wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 1996, snow wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 1996, Black Unicorn wrote:
On Thu, 23 May 1996, Mike Duvos wrote:
believe that Matt Blaze recently received "The Briefing" and he is still on our side. Don't suppose Matt could do a little executive summary of "The Briefing" and post it to the list, could he? Probably not unless he wanted to do time. I suspect some anonymous person might put bamboo shoots under his fingernails and post the results of the interrogation however.
Isn't this exactly what the anon remailers were designed for?
That was the point, yes.
Sorry, I was on skim mode, and missed the "posts the results" portion. I was just thinking along the lines of getting the bamboo slivers (shoots don't work too good) under the finger nails. How pedestrian. Petro, Christopher C. petro@suba.com <prefered for any non-list stuff> snow@crash.suba.com
I don't think I actually got "the breifing", if any such standard briefing actually exists. What Sameer is probably thinking of is that the seven authors of the "key length report" were invited down to DC to talk with a bunch of high-level policy types, but they never showed us the bodies (or the files on us, or whatever it is they show the people who they really want to impress). -matt [NB, please send any reply directly to me; I don't read the list with any regularity these days, and saw this message only because someone mentioned it. thanks. -matt]
Paraphrasing the "Wired" item, "No person who has ever received "The Briefing" has ever again argued forcefully for the rights of citizens to use strong cryptography."
It's my understanding that this statement is now false. I believe that Matt Blaze recently received "The Briefing" and he is still on our side. (I personally think it was a mistake on their part to give him said Briefing, as they should have realized he couldn't be converted. Now that someone has "withstood the Briefing" it gives them less credibility.)
-- Sameer Parekh Voice: 510-601-9777x3 Community ConneXion, Inc. FAX: 510-601-9734 The Internet Privacy Provider Dialin: 510-658-6376 http://www.c2.net/ (or login as "guest") sameer@c2.net
If I were planning such a briefing I'd probably concentrate on real cases that were cracked due to NSA SIGINT - especially terrorist groups operating with only limited state sponsorship Simon
Paraphrasing the "Wired" item, "No person who has ever received "The Briefing" has ever again argued forcefully for the rights of citizens to use strong cryptography."
I surmise that either Sen. Burns has not yet been given The Briefing, or he is for some reason more resistant than most other burrowcrats to the scare tactics used in The Briefing.
I sure would like to know what's in this briefing.
perhaps the "four horsemen of the infocalypse" (terrorists, child pornographers, drug dealers, money launderers) only scratches the surface. seriously though, it's possible to imagine some things. 1. there could be some info on how the NSA foiled various horrible james-bond like plots for governments to destroy the world 2. information on terrorists using cryptography, to create a kind of link in the mind of the feebleminded 3. nuclear secrets. defense secrets. information on state-of-the-art weapons systems that are subject to spying and espionage. creating the impression that any private crypto would tend to totally destabilize the "stability" of the world, upheld by the NSA of course 4. another classic NSA/secret society trick is to say, "you are a special person. we can't tell everyone what we are going to tell you now, but you have reached a position wherein you have earned this privilege. you are going to become a warrior in the fight against world tyranny. few know about us. we are the few, the proud." in short, I think the Briefing probably has a lot of psychological theater going on to create an aura of reverence even if the info is not all that substantial. things like talking about who else knows the info, how private it is, what the huge stakes involved are of defying the plan, etc.
participants (8)
-
Black Unicorn -
Matt Blaze -
mpd＠netcom.com -
sameer＠c2.org -
Simon Spero -
snow -
tcmay＠got.net -
Vladimir Z. Nuri