Why nothing works <g> [Was: Mandatory sig workaround]
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Roy wrote in response to Tim:
Tim, just for fun, what tools would need to appear to make it possible for you to sign your traffic? Maybe a description will inspire some of the Macheads out there to get hacking. (the astute reader will note that I'm not suggesting new tools to the erstwhile Mr. May, as has been done so often in the past)
There is no hacking in the world that could create the kind of tool that would be needed to satisfy Tim. What would be required to satisfy Tim can't be done and I think that most long time CP's are be well aware of that. We have had this discussion over and over for many issues (PGP, MIME,..) for the last two years. The problem isn't that there are no tools for Tim's Mac, the problem is that there is _no way_ to do all these things on Netcom's UNIX host. 1. Tim: "I can't do any of the new things you are proposing because I don't have the tools." 2. Some CP: "Just download your mail to your local machine and process it there. There are many great ways to automate this on a Mac." 3. Tim: "I don't want to have to download mail for processing. I want to be able to do it all on Netcom's machine." 4. Some CP: "Just run PGP on Netcom's machine and process the mail there.' 5. Tim: " Using PGP on a shared machine is a security risk." 6. Some CP: "Just use a low security key on Netcom to sign your messages." 7. Tim: "PGP on a timeshare is worse than nothing. It gives a wrong sense of security. " 8. Some CP: "Since you don't want to do it on the host and you don't want to do it on another machine, there is no way for you to do it." 9. GOTO 1. No, the above is not a quote of an acctual exchange, but rather an abreviated version of what I gathered from reading hundreds of messages and dozens of threads. YMMV, - --Lucky -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6ui iQCVAgUBLt41vASQkem38rwFAQFNRwP8DjwJ37unGf27LscvTOCU699wvXvH/pEI kBdvRCHJNQbcerBc7SDwjgVJC3XaaIDlO1rqBfcZXZETOa/3EKnjFHiX0+6Kb0zo b1k2lTmzFG7su2biwkmYkI5TlYEM4/nTpq/vYjZ3Md5rjXm5wA+cJcfivJd8RdX6 fRwWq2QXerM= =z9wu -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Wow! Maybe becuase I am just now having my first evening drink (to paraphrase someoone who spoke about having his first morning cup of coffee), but I find Lucky's message *dead on*. Lucky Green wrote:
There is no hacking in the world that could create the kind of tool that would be needed to satisfy Tim. What would be required to satisfy Tim can't be done and I think that most long time CP's are be well aware of that. We have had this discussion over and over for many issues (PGP, MIME,..) for the last two years.
I was starting to get my hackles up at this point, preparing to rebut Lucky's claims, until...
The problem isn't that there are no tools for Tim's Mac, the problem is that there is _no way_ to do all these things on Netcom's UNIX host.
1. Tim: "I can't do any of the new things you are proposing because I don't have the tools." 2. Some CP: "Just download your mail to your local machine and process it there. There are many great ways to automate this on a Mac." 3. Tim: "I don't want to have to download mail for processing. I want to be able to do it all on Netcom's machine." ...rest elided...
A fair summary of the situation. And I consider the slight benefits of signing to not be worth the effort of changing the tools I have managed to get working over the past couple of years. By the way, Rishab mentioned getting PGP integrated into Netscape (or other Mosaic-like tools). I heartily concur, and even made an impassioned plea for this at the last CP meeting. Netscape and a SLIP or PPP connection is what I expect to be shifting too as things shake out, as versions become real, etc. (I've mentioned this before.) Also, Netscape the company (formerly Mosaic Communications) is seeking to hire someone to do this. A clear opportunity for a Bay Area CP to do something good and also probably become a millionaire. (3,000 millionaires were created by Microsoft's success, and Mosaic-Netscape may be comparable in success.) --Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. Cypherpunks list: majordomo@toad.com with body message of only: subscribe cypherpunks. FAQ available at ftp.netcom.com in pub/tcmay
From: "Timothy C. May" <tcmay@netcom.com> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 19:30:58 -0800 (PST) > 3. Tim: "I don't want to have to download mail for processing. I > want to be able to do it all on Netcom's machine." A fair summary of the situation. And I consider the slight benefits of signing to not be worth the effort of changing the tools I have managed to get working over the past couple of years. I think that solution is clear: Buy your own netcom. You don't need the size, so just buy a 486 and a domain name (cypherpunks.org?). Then, hire a CP hacker to Linuxize the 486, slip/ppp it to some provider, and hook-up premail et al. Anyone selling Linux support contracts yet? You can continue to do what you currently do on your Mac. You'll just be tcmay@cypherpunks.org instead of tcmay@netcom.com and you'll have some crypto bells and whistles that you didn't have before. Rick
Re:
You don't need the size, so just buy a 486 and a domain name (cypherpunks.org?). Then, hire a CP hacker to Linuxize the 486, slip/ppp it to some provider, and hook-up premail et al. Anyone selling Linux support contracts yet?
Ironically, about 2 hours before I read this message I decided to go that route - I'm going to be doing some consulting (installing a couple PowerMacs and the software on them) and my buddy who is subcontracting the Mac work to me is willing to pay me in trade so I am getting a 486DX-25 with a 120 meg drive hodgepodged out of his spare parts. I want to run linux on this beast and would like some suggestions from the list - which of the linux CDs do you recommend? I want to have full network services running on it. I need a minimum of POP3/SMTP (my Duo will be grabbing my mail using StarNine's PT-Inet gateway), a web server, NNTP, ftp, all the good stuff. I'm completely unfamiliar with linux other than hearing people rave about it. I do have a moderate amount of Unix experience though, as I used to have a BBS running on an AT&T Unix PC and also administered an AT&T 6300 running Xenix. This was all a long time ago though - both machines were brand new and just introduced on the market when I got my hands on them. Since then, I've just been a user, no root access anywhere. Thanks, Joe Block jpb@gate.net Moderation in temper is always a virtue; moderation in principle is always a vice. -- Thomas Paine
participants (4)
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jpb＠gate.net -
Rick Busdiecker -
shamrock＠netcom.com -
tcmay＠netcom.com