Federal motivation
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Martin Minow wrote:
EH: Why do the Fed's want access to plaintext? The motivation has not been made clear. Policy goals are stated in technological terms, not in policy terms.
Perhaps we can elaborate on this. Judging from their actions, what they want is a full blown police state. They've seen the product, now they want one of their own. This is obvious to everybody on this list, but sometimes people are coy about it, probably in an effort to appear to be "legitimate". This transcends the issue of crypto, although the problem will be more manageable if the use of crypto remains legal. What we are seeing is the fight for survival of the institutions created during World War II. Their only purpose now is self promotion. This was universally recognized ten years ago when the Wall fell, but somehow the "peace dividend" never materialized and they got another trillion dollars out of us. We can look at Russia and see just how hard it is for a society to free itself of these sorts of institutions. How much of the Russian "Mafia" is composed of fragments of the KGB? This story can be read again and again throughout history. What is different in 1997 is that the technology of mass surveillance and population management is superior. What is at stake is whether we remain a free people or whether we end up with ear tags like cattle. Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNBxsHZaWtjSmRH/5AQEcfAf/VGeyAVgrA7eztbu/4LtYb2dSYqAeTjjN ud0vDFUZNUHcBi+xyh9NwlkDmsbr8RGOytdpIddKKbYvHa0P0ik3PkGiGMS3MiW5 6mIKV5OU0xb5uOadvBmRGwynydg8IpnkdWljazOiGLE2chTMRoIVghSguApxBzlQ W9XLeB67xkNQHU9a0Plw0f0iBcGBML6yqNLNOGOehIm/LEV21k+OKlcW1aW0uksB TD5HkynJvaD65Exlrps4AZLp6R1SEQe0UhS86KMekeUARub3MkMxmD4XgznEnRj3 19vOahUygnnQoy2BaAVRg+4M//4EOwk7SGsQ/RbEGoSpdnFHrZDKdQ== =vQC6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Anonymous, signing as Monty Cantsin, Editor in Chief of Smile Magazine quotes my Cypherpunks summary's quote of Eric Hughes:
Martin Minow wrote:
EH: Why do the Fed's want access to plaintext? The motivation has not been made clear. Policy goals are stated in technological terms, not in policy terms.
Perhaps we can elaborate on this. Judging from their actions, what they want is a full blown police state. They've seen the product, now they want one of their own. This is obvious to everybody on this list, but sometimes people are coy about it, probably in an effort to appear to be "legitimate".
Sorry, it isn't obvious to me. The most paranoid I can work myself up to is to assume that some (not all) of our leaders want to restore their half-remembered 1950's Dick-and-Jane, big car, Eisenhauer suburbian childhood; and are afraid that letting absolute privacy loose will be the end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it. This parallels the battles that were waged in the early 1960's, as the civil rights movement (and the Pill) shattered the myth of suburbia. The police and FBI felt, quite sincerely, that they were in the midst of a revolution and had to take "necessary measures" to save America. The new cryptography makes the Internet safe for child pornographers, for revolutionaries, for criminals, as well as for human rights workers, for religious missionaries in unfriendly countries, and multinational corporations. The message I read from the attempt to criminalize strong cryptography is that the risk of damage from the pornographers (etc.) is so great that we must restrict cryptography and trust the national leadership to respect the rights of the good guys. Unfortunately, one country's human rights worker is another country's dangerous revolutionary. Remember, the Martin Luther King who was thrown in jail in Alabama in the early 1960's was the same Martin Luther Kings who received the Nobel Peace Prize a few years later, and who was killed for his revolutionary activities just a few years after that. Whether he was a hero or villian depends on who writes the history book and it is, ultimately, our responsibility to make sure that many, conflicting, history books can be written. Martin Minow minow@apple.com
At 6:54 PM -0700 9/14/97, Martin Minow wrote:
Remember, the Martin Luther King who was thrown in jail in Alabama in the early 1960's was the same Martin Luther Kings who received the Nobel Peace Prize a few years later, and who was killed for his revolutionary activities just a few years after that. Whether he was a hero or villian depends on who writes the history book and it is, ultimately, our responsibility to make sure that many, conflicting, history books can be written.
Most particularly remember that the director-for-life of the FBI used telephone intercepts in an attempt to get this Martin Luther King to commit suicide. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | The Internet was designed | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | to protect the free world | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz@netcom.com | from hostile governments. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA
On 14 Sep 97 at 18:54, Martin Minow wrote:
Anonymous, signing as Monty Cantsin, [wrote]:
Perhaps we can elaborate on this. Judging from their actions, what they want is a full blown police state. They've seen the product, now they want one of their own. This is obvious to everybody on this list, but sometimes people are coy about it, probably in an effort to appear to be "legitimate".
Sorry, it isn't obvious to me. The most paranoid I can work myself up to is to assume that some (not all) of our leaders want to restore their half-remembered 1950's Dick-and-Jane, big car, Eisenhauer suburbian childhood...
And I think that a tremendous obstacle here is a fairly widespread and definitely human tendency to ascribe innocent or misguided motivation to what are, objectively, consummately *evil* deeds. Those are not bumpkins up there in Congress. Some may question their IQs but of those congresscritters are crafty lawyers. The few who aren't lawyers are just crafty. That's how they got there and that's how they build their power and wealth bases once there, in jobs that don't pay enough to make any honest person rich.
The new cryptography makes the Internet safe for child pornographers, for revolutionaries, for criminals,
Virtually any resource one could name could be similarly demonized, as the beleaguered gun owners well know. Criminals enjoy safe and comfortable transportation by car, bus, train and jetliner. They sustain their mortal coils with food. They breathe air. Anything that is commonly used or useful can be said to nurture, further, encourage or protect the criminal element. The logical response is, "So what?" The emotional, PR knee-jerk reaction of a public only superficially involved with anything outside the confines of their complicated little sitcom-and-sports lives is to nod in robotic agreement and sit still while breathing permits are passed into law, to be revoked only when one of those nasty, awful bad guys uses air in furtherance of a political crime. By the time breathing permits are routinely revoked for expired car tags Joe Lunchbucket is in way over his head. This stuff is serious. This pattern is not new -- it is just new *here*, a development of the last 20 years. Similar slippery slopes have been traveled in other countries, in other times. These times are getting way too interesting for comfort. TJ | Sign up now for the | | Cypherpunks Retirement Plan | | Provided free of charge by the U.S. Government | | Open Enrollment has begun |
participants (4)
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Bill Frantz -
Martin Minow -
nobody＠REPLAY.COM -
Thomas Junker