Re: NSA Realists v. Nuts
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In article <199510071424.AA00279@october.ducktown.org>, mkj@october.ducktown.org wrote:
Need I point out that pride in one's work is not necessarily exclusive of evil? Rarely does anyone actually think of themselves as evil -- and those few who do are usually just harmless nuts. The most evil and destructive people throughout history have always thought of themselves as good people, doing good work.
Let me illustrate this with an example. During my visit to Dachau Concentration Camp, I saw original lab notebooks of experiments designed to increase the survial rate of pilots downed above the cold waters of the North Sea. A noble cause. The notebooks contained pages upon pages of tables listing survial times vs. water temperature, the data gained by dropping subjects into a tub containing water of a defined temperature. I them saw more tables of the effects of various methods investigated to revive hypothermia victims who were near death. One of the treatments under investigation was dropping the patient into boiling water. Surely this type of research falls under the category of evil. But the scientists that conducted the study would not have thought so. They believed that they did a favor to humanity. The fact that to this day the treatment of hypothermia is based upon the results of this study, saving the lives of thousands of patients over the decades past, would surely - in the experimenters' minds - have vindicated their gruesome deeds. Ponder this, - --- [This message has been signed by an auto-signing service. A valid signature means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the signature and forwarded.] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Gratis auto-signing service iQBFAwUBMHgyXyoZzwIn1bdtAQFZCAGAvCKsAfc09eefeVsp3Oec73L6WsvxJcbH nlyp7+gX0rG1vBZcsTemp817MSa/WUbb =UuOA -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Sun, 8 Oct 1995, Lucky Green wrote:
Let me illustrate this with an example. During my visit to Dachau Concentration Camp, I saw original lab notebooks of experiments designed to increase the survial rate of pilots downed above the cold waters of the North Sea. A noble cause.
Let me illustrate this with an example. During my visit to the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta, I saw original lab notebooks of experiments designed to cure Aids, Hanta virus, etc. A noble cause. But all of this noble research was obtained by holding the entire population of a nation in thrall. These people were threatened with death if they didn't support this research. Armed men herded resisters into camps guarded by high walls and barbed wire. All government research Nazi or whatever is soaked in the blood of millions. DCF
On Mon, 9 Oct 1995, Duncan Frissell wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 1995, Lucky Green wrote:
Let me illustrate this with an example. During my visit to Dachau Concentration Camp, I saw original lab notebooks of experiments designed to increase the survial rate of pilots downed above the cold waters of the North Sea. A noble cause.
Let me illustrate this with an example. During my visit to the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta, I saw original lab notebooks of experiments designed to cure Aids, Hanta virus, etc. A noble cause.
But all of this noble research was obtained by holding the entire population of a nation in thrall. These people were threatened with death if they didn't support this research. Armed men herded resisters into camps guarded by high walls and barbed wire.
All government research Nazi or whatever is soaked in the blood of millions.
DCF
Deep thinking Duncan, government bad, me good. . . . . . I presume in your moral superiority you also refuse to use public roads and bridges, purchase your food supplies on the black market to ensure that they could not possibly have been USDA inspected, and in every other way endeavor to never eat the fruit of the poisoned tree that is the USGovt. What a heap of self-righteous horseshit. Just call me a modern Mengele, and excuse me while I go bathe in the blood of millions. . . . . Acknowledgements: CJL is supported in part by NIH grants ES05777 and CA61949. C. J. Leonard ( / "DNA is groovy" \ / - Watson & Crick <cjl@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> / \ <-- major groove ( \ Finger for public key \ ) Strong-arm for secret key / <-- minor groove Thumb-screws for pass-phrase / )
C.J. Leonard writes --
On Mon, 9 Oct 1995, Duncan Frissell wrote:
All government research Nazi or whatever is soaked in the blood of millions.
Acknowledgements: CJL is supported in part by NIH grants ES05777 and CA61949.
I'm paid by the DOE. Constantly having to get the upholstery in my Bronco cleaned. (Don't do this at home, kids. Government research is a messy business.) -- Will
On Mon, 9 Oct 1995, W. Kinney wrote:
I'm paid by the DOE. Constantly having to get the upholstery in my Bronco cleaned. (Don't do this at home, kids. Government research is a messy business.)
2400 Americans are imprisoned every year for federal income tax violations. Approximately one person is killed every year in arrests involving federal income tax violations. Millions of man-years are spent annually in involuntary servitude to comply with tax laws. Public employees should be aware of the fact that their contribution to society is of such low value that it will not be paid for without a gun to the customer's head. Luckily cheap switches and strong crypto will make it harder for large monopoly institutions to maintain their controls. Look around for some honest work. DCF "Who thinks Michael Milkin should expatriate and renounce his citizenship so he can get back into the securities business without needing to fear the attacks of the diseased dwarfs (and one giantess) of the Klinton Kabinet." "Just trying to prove that the Republican Congresscritters aren't extremists."
As much as I agree with Duncan on this topic, it really isn't cypherpunks material. We are getting very far afield of cryptography. Could we please take this to private mail or talk.politics.libertarian or some such? Duncan Frissell writes:
2400 Americans are imprisoned every year for federal income tax violations. Approximately one person is killed every year in arrests involving federal income tax violations. Millions of man-years are spent annually in involuntary servitude to comply with tax laws. Public employees should be aware of the fact that their contribution to society is of such low value that it will not be paid for without a gun to the customer's head.
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 19:24:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Duncan Frissell <frissell@panix.com> 2400 Americans are imprisoned every year for federal income tax violations. Approximately one person is killed every year in arrests involving federal income tax violations. *This* is the blood of millions you spoke of?!? Oh please . . . . Considering that you launched into this as a comparison to the Nazi `medical experiments' I can only conclude that you're hopelessly out of touch with anything similar to reality. Rick
participants (6)
-
cjl -
Duncan Frissell -
Perry E. Metzger -
Rick Busdiecker -
shamrock＠netcom.com -
W. Kinney