Jackboots in Canada
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- AP 3/21/97 Quebec Spurred by a new outbreak of bombings, the Canadian government agreed Thursday to toughen laws to help Quebec stamp out a war between motorcycle gangs that has killed more than 30 people. [snip] ...Hell's Angels and Rock Machine...have been battling for control of the illegal drug trade in Canada. Canadian justice minister, Allan Rock, said the measures would include broadening laws on search warrants, electronic eavesdropping and bail conditions for arrested gang members. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 iQCVAgUBMzKOOiKJGkNBIH7lAQHrAwP+P/0YSzXsLKlLe5YAzOVC0QB31uNhmvim HsSdPbulXccXCV0WIeG5uCtzCLXliR759KunfxEs2GithcIpfcDDKa4SFJv9+SVi PqmWXAxs+qNQ/uQqsDo97zuk+tNhO0631XRkh1LS+tL9Q6pCJfSpNl3Ntvhtyafv OD01c5tLwts= =AqwJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
owner-cypherpunks@sirius.infonex.com writes:
AP 3/21/97
Quebec
Spurred by a new outbreak of bombings, the Canadian government agreed Thursday to toughen laws to help Quebec stamp out a war between motorcycle gangs that has killed more than 30 people.
[snip]
...Hell's Angels and Rock Machine...have been battling for control of the illegal drug trade in Canada.
Canadian justice minister, Allan Rock, said the measures would include broadening laws on search warrants, electronic eavesdropping and bail conditions for arrested gang members.
The alternative, proposed by some goverment person (governor?) in Quebec, was to suspend "individual liberties" for bikers, making it possible to pull one over at any time, search them, and if explosives are found assume they're guilty until proven innocent. That last part just floored me, how could anyone be willing to throw away rights like that? At least here in the US they're not so obvious about it- the cash (or cars or computers) are seized and presumed guilty until proven innocent, and of course you can't mount a defense if everything you own is seized and your bank accounts frozen, but you're still presumed innocent. It was that evil CASH that did it. -- Eric Murray ericm@lne.com Network security and encryption consulting. PGP keyid:E03F65E5 fingerprint:50 B0 A2 4C 7D 86 FC 03 92 E8 AC E6 7E 27 29 AF
Eric said:
...Hell's Angels and Rock Machine...have been battling for control of the illegal drug trade in Canada. Canadian justice minister, Allan Rock, said the measures would include broadening laws on search warrants, electronic eavesdropping and bail conditions for arrested gang members. The alternative, proposed by some goverment person (governor?) in Quebec, was to suspend "individual liberties" for bikers, making it possible to
owner-cypherpunks@sirius.infonex.com writes: pull one over at any time, search them, and if explosives are found assume they're guilty until proven innocent. That last part just floored me, how could anyone be willing to throw away rights like that? At least here in the US they're not so
It isn't their rights being thrown away, it is the rights of the evil bikers.
snow wrote:
It isn't their rights being thrown away, it is the rights of the evil bikers.
You hit the nail on the head. The Bummerment always gains their ground by taking away 'other' people's rights, one by one, until they've taken them all away. As long as people only complain when their own rights are being taken away, then the Bummerment will rule by a 'divide and conquer' approach. -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html
At 2:30 PM -0800 3/21/97, Eric Murray wrote:
That last part just floored me, how could anyone be willing to throw away rights like that? At least here in the US they're not so obvious about it- the cash (or cars or computers) are seized and presumed guilty until proven innocent, and of course you can't mount a defense if everything you own is seized and your bank accounts frozen, but you're still presumed innocent. It was that evil CASH that did it.
Well, combine this revocation of rights in Canada with today's report that Britain plans to license crypto, and with the discussion a few weeks ago about how Anguilla and similar countries lack formal constitutions, etc., and one can see what is going on: most countries are "ad hocracies," making up rules as they go along. For all its many faults, the United States has a strong constitution and laws are often thrown out completely because they conflict with the U.S. Constitution. The danger I see is that the U.S. is moving closer every day to becoming another ad hocracy, with the regulatory and administrative powers of the government ever more stifling and controlling. (By the way, on the "licensing of crypto," the U.S. is about to cause Europe to do to itself what the U.S. is essentially unable to do within the U.S., namely, force central control of cryptography, ban rogue use, and basically criminalize any unauthorized use. David Aaron and Louis Freeh and the rest of the OECD/Wasenaar/NSA cabal have done their jobs well.) --Tim May Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside" We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 02:30 PM 3/21/97 -0800, Eric Murray wrote: [snip] |The alternative, proposed by some goverment person (governor?) in Quebec, was |to suspend "individual liberties" for bikers, making it possible to |pull one over at any time, search them, and if explosives are found |assume they're guilty until proven innocent. [snip] Isn't this the common ploy. "Hey, aren't we the civil liberterians; we were going to take away _all_ your civil liberties. You should be PLEASED we took only those we did. Besides, it's for your own good, and will be used _only_ to control those filthy drug-dealing bikers, not the decent citizenry." What has the reaction been in Canada? Alec -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 iQCVAgUBMzM9DiKJGkNBIH7lAQG2xwQArDZwV2oUeAbLHkGd24YPcJql9fev3GSI rICksKuX394SQao41GfSi3u7Y0SF1et4L/EAO+wu+bRZs6eARKysJisBNIja/0er 6LT3AQX0SKaxRD1HOqrkcuKpYYd9fT8RtmQFNipJqJx54xJ9P87Wlklr3n7K1aoD YSnO2UsTfbQ= =4wgA -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 08:34 AM 3/21/97 -0500, Alec wrote: >...Hell's Angels and Rock Machine...have been battling for control of the - ----------------------^^^^ >illegal drug trade in Canada. > >Canadian justice minister, Allan Rock, said - ----------------------------------^^^^ I've had my doubts about Allan ever since the debates on the gun registration bill. Even Canadians can conspire. DCF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 iQCVAgUBMzPktIVO4r4sgSPhAQF0OwP8Dsh4RA0P8oZCoszNeoTK4soc15ke55g+ CWKKP/LhC19YL1c0sqXyPLBc7tuq5+F4ht5DJedov2s6C4PIXjxbQrNYw+Uyv7CJ MD11e+bSwI5O4F8B4EkvxubFaSiO9jizw5j5PB/5tLpu0cMCi3OEwUXol7FWdyPv w3+gnKjBOHY= =s6iA -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (6)
-
camcc＠abraxis.com -
Duncan Frissell -
Eric Murray -
snow -
Timothy C. May -
Toto