So... I just have to know someone's name and phone number in the US? Ryan ---------- Previous Message ---------- To: tcmay cc: cypherpunks From: jsw @ netscape.com (Jeff Weinstein) @ smtp Date: 07/18/96 12:47:22 AM Subject: Re: "address verification databases"? (was: Netscape download...) Timothy C. May wrote:

At 9:45 PM 7/17/96, Jeff Weinstein wrote:

...

Because we have not yet been able to obtain the address verification databases that we need for Canada. There is someone working on tracking this down right now. When we get the proper database we will add access to canada.

--Jeff

Jeff, can you tell us anything more about what these "address verification databases" are?

For example, are they derived from government sources? Census data? (Naw, can't be, for at least two obvious reasons). Voting records? (Naw.) Credit card purchases? (??)

Our database was obtained from American Business Information. They make those CDROMs with 11 million business names and addresses, and other such products. There is a link to their web page from our US download page.

While I can imagine various commercial firms have indicators that a "T. Christopher May" once lived in Rio Del Mar (the name of a town I lived in, though not an official "Postal Service" address), I really find it odd that, for example, there would be any database that could "parse" the informal information people provide (absent a well-defined set of addresses and precise spellings).

In case I'm not making myself clear, there are no "official" addresses of persons in the U.S! Not even the tax system requires registration of all persons and specific addresses. This has come up in several "voter's rights" cases, where persons with no fixed address were nevertheless able to vote. If I, T.C. May, say my address is Moonbeam Trailer Park, who's to say it's not? Maybe it's where I'm staying with a girlfriend, maybe it's where I get my mail, maybe it's my spiritual home. And yet just which "address verification database" could possibly confirm that I live in (or get my mail at the Moonbeam Trailer Park at this exact moment? Absent any laws clearly defining what one's official name is, official phone number is, official zip code is, official address is, etc., just about anything we choose to put down on the Web form is kosher.

Our verification software does not check that the person whose name is entered in the form lives at the address entered in the form. We do verify some parts of the information entered. Things like is the state code one of the 50 states, does the zip code match the state, etc. (NOTE - these may not be the exact checks implemented currently. I have not examined the code myself, but these are the types of checks being done.)

At least the MIT system was based on ISP domain names, crude as this is, and not on putative names and residential or business addresses.

We also screen out based on domain names.

Anyway, I don't know if Netscape is rejecting the information I'm providing them, as I've been unable to get through in roughly 30 connect attempts.

We will be increasing capacity soon. The demand is very high. It costs us real dollars to buy hardware and T3 lines to allow people to download the software for free.

But I'm still curious about what these "address verification databases." Sounds ominous to me.

I'm sorry that my choice of words disturbed you. I hope my explanation will allay at least some of your fears. There are many people here (including Jim Barksdale) who are very concerned about maintaining personal privacy. Certainly if we could we would make the US versions of our software available in the same way that we currently make the export versions available. At least people now have the choice of obtaining the US version over the internet. --Jeff -- Jeff Weinstein - Electronic Munitions Specialist Netscape Communication Corporation jsw@netscape.com - http://home.netscape.com/people/jsw Any opinions expressed above are mine.