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I think freedom comes from order and knowing what to do with that freedom comes from chaos.

Freedom comes from understanding what one can do standing alone, naked, in the middle of a wilderness. Everything else is a compromise of that.

I was thinking more along the lines of : an animal that has literal freedom spends 99.9% of its time looking for food and avoiding predators. The order we impose upon our lives by being social animals give us a more satisfying type of freedom that is derived from leisure. What I see as the real problem is that as the degree of order is increased the society becomes more like an anthill. Which I consider the perfect example of a bioengineered police state. Kind of what corporate America would like all of us citizens to be - predictable controllable unquestioning undeviating uncreative underthethumb consumer units. A key means to this end is eliminating cash and privacy. It's no here yet but it's in process. I don't think it's a conspiratorial effort either - it's more the result of widespread bad behavior. I'm rather stunned at the blatant disregard our representatives display for the basic liberties the moment these liberties seem inconvenient. Mike Don't trust your HW or your SW. There are soldier ant footprints everywhere.