Re: Cypherpunks as a Terrorist Organization
On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Tim May wrote:
First, the rise of search engines, archives, and employers routinely running DejaNews and other search engine checks on potential employees and consultants to see what sorts of folks they are. (Whether being active on the Cypherpunks list will nix a job is pretty unlikely, but it's still a worry to some.)
of sorts. But many have been investigated, and, as John Young noted recently, the IRS treats membership in certain organizations as a
And there is Clinton's Anti-Terrorism Act, which explicitly makes certain kinds of financial and other activities illegal, even by Americans, which involve support of "terrorist" organizations. It is not inconceivable
Hey Tim, speaking of DejaNews, how soon do you think it will be before there is a Ministry of Truth (minitru) in place to correct incorrect postings of the past, to update them a bit and airbrush out those who, um, never existed? threat. that,
following outlawing of strong crypto in various countries, that the Cypherpunks group gets classified as an organization or group which supports terrorist goals, which is almost certainly true.)
No bigger a threat than the HUAC saw those who didn't believe the Hoover vision. Nothing's really changed since then other than the faces and the names. The issues remain.
Fourth, the arrest and prosecution of Jim Bell, with tax evasion and a minor stink bomb case turned into a "federal case" because of his controversial views. This has obviously angered and radicalized many. Some of us have stocked up on more asault weapons and shotguns, placed alarms around our property, and we are expecting a "raid." As I have said, if black-clad ninja raiders try to hit me, I'll assume they're "home invaders" and will open fire. (A Sheriff's Deputy once told me that even saying I would defend my home against unwelcome intruders constituted a "threat" and that he might order a detachment to visit my compound. So far, two years later, he hasn't made good on _his_ threat. And now I'm more ready for him than ever.)
A theat to him perhaps. What ever happened to self defense I wonder?
So, "B.," stop apologizing for reading the list. You're already a marked man in their eyes...and search engines can already identify the True Name who is posting the last year or two as "Zooko Journeyman." In a couple of years, all search engines will have "known aliases" macros to automatically ferret out the web of pseudonyms linkable to a poster. You can run, but you can't hide.
Not unless he joins the book people in the woods. :)
And "democracy" is spinning out of control, being used by authoritarians to convert the world into a security state. Restrictions on travel, new drug laws, laws against images and words on the Net, and thousands of new laws every years.
Congress was indeed a horrid idea. We need no laws other that "do what you will as long as you don't physically injure, or steal." All else is congressional bullshit paid in bloody tax money.
A frontal assault, using strong crypto to aid in the attacks by freedom fighters and to destablize authority, makes more sense. When a government official decrees that citizen-units may no longer do certain things which were once quite legal and quite common (such as owning a gun for defense), that official must expect certain repercussions.
A few years back when the anti-gun crap started in NYC, they had all sorts of save the kids propaganda stories and projects: such as trade your gun for a toy, and stories like 8 year old shot dead by drug deal for threatening to use water pistol.
We're in a state of war with the statists and tyrants. It's what Jefferson and the other Founders expected to happen, and now the watering with the blood of patriots and tyrants is happening.
Some war. We've already lost. The Big Brother machine is already in place and has been since Hoover. Jim Bell was arrested for thinking differently than is allowed. No different than being declared insane and sent to the Gulag for "re-education" for disagreement with the party, the glorious party. Not having lived in communist or fascist countries, the sheeple are asleep. My parents having left a socialist state (read fascist) for freedom, I find freedom fleeting. The same scum that ran the communist block are here running our country. Sure they were born here, but their spirit and beliefs are the same as the scum that were in power in the old country. How much money are we to bleed to them in taxes (read plural, as in income, realestate, hotel, parking, gas and electric, telephone, taxes on tax returns, etc.)? How soon before breathing taxes? Fucking Taxes? Living Taxes? Speaking Taxes? Let's not pretend. We work for them. It's mandatory work. Our work pays their goals. Doesn't matter if you work for Mickey D's or Mickey Soft. You pay Big Uncle. You work for Big Uncle's benefit. It's not enough to fear Big Uncle. You must love big uncle. One may not even hold anti-government views for fear of being in contempt of court and be judged against.
It's what the Founders expected. Get used to it.
How soon before they stop teaching highschool kids about the revolution for fear it will happen again? How soon before they edit the constitution and pretend it was always that way? How soon before we'll need passports to travel between one part of the country and another? Between one 'burb to another? How soon before we have to register every computer out there? How soon before we have to register every phone and phone card? Every pencil and knife and fork and other sharp objects? How soon before night curfews? How soon before Victory Coffee and Gin? How soon to food rations? How soon to electricity rations and water rations and net access rations? How soon before ex-communist Russia has more freedom than we? They've already silenced us, they've already taken our guns, they've already thrown us in jail for feeding others, for speaking, thinking and protesting, and demanding privacy, they've already stripped our privacy, they've already murdered us, they've already licensed everything we can do and can't, they've already filled the streets with jackbooted gun and nightstick toting thugs who wear blue and use bathroom plungers as means of interrogation. What next? And how soon? --- Trevor Goodchild
At 9:00 AM -0700 8/19/97, Trevor Goodchild wrote:
Hey Tim, speaking of DejaNews, how soon do you think it will be before there is a Ministry of Truth (minitru) in place to correct incorrect postings of the past, to update them a bit and airbrush out those who, um, never existed?
As a matter of fact, I expect there have already been actions demanding that DejaNews purge their data bases of some posting or another. After all, they are truly a form of "eternity server." (I don't mean "no archive," I mean cases where Individual A or Company B finds something they don't like--libel, trade secrets, whatever--and demands that references be expunged.) And on the Cypherpunks list, we saw a similar rewriting of history. Once the censor decided that any posts critical of a certain company's security products were not to be allowed on the censored list, then he had to block posts which even _referenced_ this act of censorship. Such has it always been with censors, such shall it always be. ....
No bigger a threat than the HUAC saw those who didn't believe the Hoover vision. Nothing's really changed since then other than the faces and the names. The issues remain.
Indeed, the HUAC has effectively been reconstituted. For PR and administrative reasons, it is no longer the House UnAmerican Activities Committee. No political mileage in such a form. And lots of PR downside. But it's still there, of course. The Four Horsemen: Terrorists, Drug Dealers, Pornographers, and Money Launderers. These are invoked to pass more draconial laws and to imprison dissidents. ...
and will open fire. (A Sheriff's Deputy once told me that even saying I would defend my home against unwelcome intruders constituted a "threat" and that he might order a detachment to visit my compound. So far, two years later, he hasn't made good on _his_ threat. And now I'm more ready for him than ever.)
A theat to him perhaps. What ever happened to self defense I wonder?
It's been very tough for many years to win a case of killing police based on "self defense" arguments. Had Abner Louima tried to shoot his sodomizers they would have just drawn down on him and zapped him. It then wouldn't have even made the news, except on page 17. (And had he died during his toilet plunger experience, they'd have shot him, then planted a piece on him. Case closed.)
Congress was indeed a horrid idea. We need no laws other that "do what you will as long as you don't physically injure, or steal." All else is congressional bullshit paid in bloody tax money.
Amen, brother.
My parents having left a socialist state (read fascist) for freedom, I find freedom fleeting. The same scum that ran the communist block are here running our country. Sure they were born here, but their spirit and beliefs are the same as the scum that were in power in the old country.
Indeed. And much more basic than "left" vs. "right" are the usual issues of control" those in power want to stay in power and want to extend their power. The alleged "leftists" (communists, socialists) in power in Eastern Europe and the U.S.S.R. were of course not leftists first and foremost. They were just the leaders, the gangleaders, the company presidents, of the monopoly force. (No time for a political discussion, but both fascism and communism, as practiced this century, are cases of a "corporate state," with the corporation = the state. As Mussolini said, "fascism is corporatism.")
How soon before they stop teaching highschool kids about the revolution for fear it will happen again? How soon before they edit the constitution and pretend it was always that way? How soon before we'll need passports to travel between one part of the country and another? Between one 'burb to another?
Well, I graduated from a pretty good high school in Fairfax County, Virginia, a suburb of D.C., in 1970. Even by the time I took U.S. history in 1968 or so, more time was spent discussing "Crispus Attuck," the noble black man who fought in some battle in Boston or Lexington or somesuch, than in discussing the Founder's warnings that a revolution would probably have to be fought again in a generation (20 years). It seems that discussing the "relevance" (a totemic word back in '68) of the American Revolution to the lives of blacks and to the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. was more important than exploring what the Revolution really means to the struggle against central authoritarian governments. So, if my high school was teaching this crap almost 30 years ago, I can only imagine what time has done.
knife and fork and other sharp objects? How soon before night curfews?
Many communities have night curfews. I got into a heated discussion here in Santa Cruz, California, when I said on a local newsgroup that my son had been instructed to ignore the illegal restriction on his movements, and that if he was arrested he should expect to sit in jail, as I was not going to drive down to the jail and bail him out or sign for him, or whatever. (I was hoping to get one of those famous calls from "Child Protective Services," based on this post, so I could tell them to fuck off and watch the sparks fly. Maybe even get one of their vans pulling into my parking lot. Alas, no such call. And nearly all the folks in scruz.general who commented on the issue seemed to agree that curfews are unconstitutional restrictions on their freedom to decide where their children should be at various times.)
They've already silenced us, they've already taken our guns, they've already thrown us in jail for feeding others, for speaking, thinking and protesting, and demanding privacy, they've already stripped our privacy, they've already murdered us, they've already licensed everything we can do and can't, they've already filled the streets with jackbooted gun and nightstick toting thugs who wear blue and use bathroom plungers as means of interrogation.
What next? And how soon?
They've _tried_ to take our guns, you mean. Here in Kalifornia, something like 80% of "assault rifle" owners have failed to comply with the laws requiring registration, licensing, taxes, etc. (Many of us bought Colt AR-15s and Valmet AK-47 lookalikes in the 1970s and 80s, and made damn sure we bought them at gun shows, for cash. With no identities being disclosed. These rifles are now the backbone of the militia movement, and the authorities are basically unwilling to try to enforce the unconsitutional laws about these "black guns.") --Tim May, still a felon under their bullshit laws, for which the politicians will eventually pay a price There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Tim May <tcmay@got.net> writes:
As a matter of fact, I expect there have already been actions demanding that DejaNews purge their data bases of some posting or another. After all, they are truly a form of "eternity server."
I know for a fact that DejaNews has complied with a request from one of the news.admin.* assholes to delete an article posted by another person calling said asshole a pedophile. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, Tim May wrote: [...]
As a matter of fact, I expect there have already been actions demanding that DejaNews purge their data bases of some posting or another. After all, they are truly a form of "eternity server."
It is possable to remove your own posts from the dejanews. However there policy says basicly We just index Usenet we are not responcible for what peaple stick on it. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBM/nNEKQK0ynCmdStAQHeoQQAxiBPIhHO6siWGO65lVtiw22JsPkxTgAJ g7T6beGcwy554dmCXnjROVs2g/77i49UCJZfEMOX744KENDCYfwYyS0qmb8vh4Tp V/jmH0Hf/V2JEvvuxryb5db8GDWKbPPLK0ACz8LCm0kgPnDt5FAaxKWz+adBmVOB co7Mslv1ffE= =BijM -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (4)
-
? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} -
dlv＠bwalk.dm.com -
Tim May -
Trevor Goodchild